Gen Z is Leading Church Attendance

Luce NDs said:

Simply listen into a discussion between a physician and a meta physicist! They run parallel across a gap ... eh?

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What discussion? Never mind. I don’t want to know. You won’t explain it in an understandable way, anyway.

timothyu said:

He told us what to do, so why not do it while God does the rest?

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Do you understand what "He" is telling you to do, with respect to history, culture and context?

timothyu said:

Consider that Jesus said: Spread His gospel of the Kingdom and act in servitude to God and each other. Straightforward, but of little meat for religion builders. He told us what to do, so why not do it while God does the rest?

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When Jesus was alive didn't he mostly "preach" to the Jews? And I thought most Jews back then weren't interested in converting others to Judaism and even now in modern times? Judaism actively respects the religious beliefs of others and even the beliefs of those who don't believe.

Waterfall said:

Judaism actively respects the religious beliefs of others

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I might put an "is supposed to" on that "actively respects". I seen damned little respect for Islam in the behaviour of the hard orthodox Zionist segment of modern Judaism. Talk of demolishing the Dome of the Rock so they can rebuild the temple and expelling the Palestinians from "Jewish" land and things like that don't scream active respect to me. It screams "my imaginary person is better than yours" in the worst way.

Mendalla said:

I might put an "is supposed to" on that "actively respects". I seen damned little respect for Islam in the behaviour of the hard orthodox Zionist segment of modern Judaism. Talk of demolishing the Dome of the Rock so they can rebuild the temple and expelling the Palestinians from "Jewish" land and things like that don't scream active respect to me. It screams "my imaginary person is better than yours" in the worst way.

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Good point, but seeing as my edit is probably timed out....I will just say, " what Mendalla said above".

Mendalla said:

I might put an "is supposed to" on that "actively respects". I seen damned little respect for Islam in the behaviour of the hard orthodox Zionist segment of modern Judaism. Talk of demolishing the Dome of the Rock so they can rebuild the temple and expelling the Palestinians from "Jewish" land and things like that don't scream active respect to me. It screams "my imaginary person is better than yours" in the worst way.

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I'm also reminded of the Jews who respect Christianity so much, they ARE Christians. But they're still Jews. Who believe in Jesus.

It's all very technical.

chansen said:

I'm also reminded of the Jews who respect Christianity so much, they ARE Christians. But they're still Jews. Who believe in Jesus.

It's all very technical.

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Supposedly that's about 19 to 21%.

The desperation of some Christians to latch on to anything that supposedly confirms their beliefs is an endless source of amusement. "Jews for Jesus" (tm) was one of the better ones we've seen here.

chansen said:

The desperation of some Christians to latch on to anything that supposedly confirms their beliefs is an endless source of amusement. "Jews for Jesus" (tm) was one of the better ones we've seen here.

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"Jews for Jesus" was an evangelical Christian initiative. The Southern Baptists as far as I know.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:

It’s not always simple because we’re caught up in a world socially constructed for inequality (injustice) that produces harm. I would say “mass-produces” it.

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Yes and it is our very own adversarial spirit that does so. Nobody wants to think about the garden where we became self-aware and brought on all the things self initiates. We lost the concept of others and greed was the catalyst that produced need for the very laws from a mountain top that said stop it ! We were given a simple commandment 2000 years ago to rectify that, but today's world is the farthest from 'other' and the most into 'self ' we have ever been, thanks to the varying forms of media. Responsibility should come before rights that are self-perceived, self-justified, self-interest.

paradox3 said:

"Jews for Jesus" was an evangelical Christian initiative. The Southern Baptists as far as I know.

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Famous for tangents and pyramid schemes.

WhyCzar said:

Do you understand what "He" is telling you to do,

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Put God's will ahead of our own and serve Him and each other. Simple.

Waterfall said:

When Jesus was alive didn't he mostly "preach" to the Jews? And I thought most Jews back then weren't interested in converting others to Judaism and even now in modern times? Judaism actively respects the religious beliefs of others and even the beliefs of those who don't believe.

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Its not about religion.

timothyu said:

Yes and it is our very own adversarial spirit that does so. Nobody wants to think about the garden where we became self-aware and brought on all the things self initiates. We lost the concept of others and greed was the catalyst that produced need for the very laws from a mountain top that said stop it ! We were given a simple commandment 2000 years ago to rectify that, but today's world is the farthest from 'other' and the most into 'self ' we have ever been, thanks to the varying forms of media. Responsibility should come before rights that are self-perceived, self-justified, self-interest.

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But who are you to decide what everyone else’s responsibilities are and who is greedy or self interested? That sounds “self justified” to me. Are you so sure you’re none of those qualities?

To live in this world together, we need systems and structures. Fair ones.

That’s why we have international human rights laws via the UN (they’re largely not enforceable, but an honour system) that our laws should be based on if we want to contribute to a more just country and more just world order. People may have come up with it but they’re the most “golden rule” inspired laws we could possibly have come up with, and then some people come along and destroy it because they claim it’s not Christian enough - when it’s actually, for this world, a peak “wwjd” instrument. We neglected to honour it - and then in doing so, we created more inequality and a less integrated, caring, world than we could’ve otherwise had.

As for the garden, I can take no responsibility for God creating it, making Adam and Eve the way they were, then putting them in it knowing they’d screw up because he made humans fallible then punishing them for his own doing. The story falls apart there. The God I believe in, is not a psychopath.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:

But who are you to decide what everyone else’s responsibilities are and who is greedy or self interested? That sounds “self justified” to me. Are you so sure you’re none of those qualities?

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I told you what scripture said we are to do, We were found guilty of self-interest (which leads to all the other selfs) in the Garden... original sin.

timothyu said:

I told you what scripture said we are to do, We were found guilty of self-interest (which leads to all the other selfs) in the Garden... original sin.

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Then the self interest came from God himself. How else? He invented the concept, gave us the ability to sin and then put us through riggers he set up for us. Sounds like a grift. Maybe an error. If I can think up a story where humans were made to live harmoniously in peace, and none of that ever happened - he could too, to be fair. And somewhere/ some level/ plain, I believe, there’s a God who didn’t do any of that to God’s own offspring.

Humans made God in their image. God deserves a better image.

I’m not discounting the fact that self-interest is a problem. It’s okay to be self interested as long as you don’t want others to be worse off than you.

I just want to say: the road to hell isn’t paved with good intentions. It’s paved with bad ones and complacency. Good intentions are good even if something gets in the way of the follow-through. You just keep trying. Bad intentions are bad even if their follow-through succeeds because success isn’t a measure of goodness. Sometimes (often?) others’ bad intentions intercept the follow-through of good ones. Sometimes our good behaviour toward others makes no difference - but we do it because it’s the right thing to do. Sometimes bad intentions thrive and good intentions can’t intercept.

Humanity needs to correct, and agree on its intentions. UN human rights are the best, most fair, and actually the most Christian inspired set of international principles we have - and people are asleep, not speaking up for them.

We’re heading into WW3, with mutual agreement on UN principles in shambles. Actually the latter precedes the former, deliberately. It’s of spiritual significance as well - dismantling and/ or ignoring it is counter to the interest of achieving actual peace among nations…and within nations.

We’ve been in WW3 since 2016 actually. It’s peaking. And the future of the church institution itself isn’t really the most pressing problem. Empathy drain, is. And apathy about ethics and lessons learned, born out of the last world war - that seek to make life more fair for all.