Expansion of MAID delayed until after next election

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@Kimmio Laughterlove
Strong disagree that myself and others are expressing ableist ignorance. But since you see it that way I plan to exit this conversation. Just to be clear, this is not about me being upset or angry. I just don't think continuing here would be fruitful.
 
That’s right, none of the disagreement or lack of understanding or interest in this involves ableism. /s

How many years did it take you to realize that a) the slippery slope was real and some disabled person like myself sounding the alarm was telling the truth? b) after you realized it, how many said or did anything outside of here? (You answered.) c) how many will go on to do any homework about this at all, through a disability rights and justice lens?


Nope, no ableism here.
 
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I have lived adjacent to disability my entire life Kimmio. CP/ epilepsy/ developmental delay. But you are correct, my experience is not first hand.

If you wish to call me ableist, have at it. But you are losing an ally
 
paradox3 said:
I have lived adjacent to disability my entire life Kimmio. CP/ epilepsy/ developmental delay. But you are correct, my experience is not first hand.

If you wish to call me ableist, have at it. But you are losing an ally
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What is ableism? How does it manifest in society?

Even I catch myself having ableist attitudes I need to self correct. Mostly internalized, about myself … and if I can be ableist, then this place…well, you’re a good cross section of how Canada thinks so be honest…
 
If not being 100% in agreement with something is ableist, then so be it. Sadly. It's a very broad statement with no nuance. There's no recognition of where there is agreement.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
because they still haven’t taken this issue up themselves and tried to discuss it beyond here. It was just some interesting subject about personal choice, not about human rights abuse, from where you sit. And I’m just some disabled nobody. You consider yourselves “above” and human rights is not about that.
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The thing about discussion boards is there's a certain amount of anonymity. Your disability is less obvious here, and mostly only known because you speak of it. I doubt anyone here considers you a "disabled nobody". I personally see you as an intelligent, articulate, passionate person. It's sad that you would say we feel we're above you somehow. That you are lesser than.

I don't know how to convey to you that this is more than just an "interesting subject" to me. I'm a person of a certain age with metastatic breast cancer. I cost the system money. Do you really believe that I've never thought about how MAID might be used inappropriately on me or other women I meet? Do you really think I don't see the negatives and possible human rights violations??? If you believe that, you haven't read anything I've written.

I would say that everyone who has participated in this discussion does have concerns about how MAID is used. I haven't read any comment that suggests people take this lightly.

I'm pretty sure everyone has said track 2 is wrong.

But, because we don't buy into your view 100%, it's just an interesting topic for us.

Kimmio Laughterlove said:
That’s clear now. I figure I might have 10 years left in this world. I want to spend them differently.
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I'm hoping to see 70. That's far less than 10 years from now. This is life and death for me in many ways.
 
Friends, relatives, and helping professionals, you may be surprised to learn, can be ableist. If you haven’t taken an interest in this subject and tried to change anyone’s mind even after the UN warnings… losing an ally? What does that mean? If it means you’ll go back to supporting MAiD expansion, I’m not the problem.

If it just means you like me less, I’m okay with that.
 
Northwind said:
If not being 100% in agreement with something is ableist, then so be it. Sadly. It's a very broad statement with no nuance. There's no recognition of where there is agreement.



The thing about discussion boards is there's a certain amount of anonymity. Your disability is less obvious here, and mostly only known because you speak of it. I doubt anyone here considers you a "disabled nobody". I personally see you as an intelligent, articulate, passionate person. It's sad that you would say we feel we're above you somehow. That you are lesser than.

I don't know how to convey to you that this is more than just an "interesting subject" to me. I'm a person of a certain age with metastatic breast cancer. I cost the system money. Do you really believe that I've never thought about how MAID might be used inappropriately on me or other women I meet? Do you really think I don't see the negatives and possible human rights violations??? If you believe that, you haven't read anything I've written.

I would say that everyone who has participated in this discussion does have concerns about how MAID is used. I haven't read any comment that suggests people take this lightly.

I'm pretty sure everyone has said track 2 is wrong.

But, because we don't buy into your view 100%, it's just an interesting topic for us.



I'm hoping to see 70. That's far less than 10 years from now. This is life and death for me in many ways.
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Being disabled isn’t lesser than. It doesn’t matter if you’ve met me in person or not re: ableism.
 
Northwind said:
I never said being disabled is lesser than. I was responding to your comment saying people here think you're lesser than. You're not.
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Well there seems to still be a correlation being made to “most of us haven’t seen you” to being articulate etc vs disabled. I’m both. Well not according to chansen but who cares.

But the fact that I am disabled, and for others who are not, taking these concerns seriously is seen as optional… when they come from the most “authoritative” on the subject people and places (glitch yesterday - site bad, author fine) …that’s ableism.

I also have depression, ADHD. Also disabilities. Caused or compounded by my (neuro) physical disability is hard to say but that’s not relevant here. The relevance is how what I’ve had to say has been treated. I wasn’t just saying “I think this” with nothing to back it up all these years - so nobody spreading the word (as things got worse) says something about ableism. Unfortunately. But that’s systemic. It’s societal. And this place represents that perfectly unfortunately.
 
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Kimmio Laughterlove said:
In Canada, "disability" broadly encompasses any impairment, whether physical, mental, intellectual, cognitive, learning, sensory, or a functional limitation, that, when interacting with societal barriers, hinders a person's full and equal participation. This includes both visible and non-visible disabilities. The definition is complex and evolving, with different programs and services potentially using varying interpretations.
According to Consolidated Acts

Seniors also develop disabilities as they age. The definition is not restricted by age.

The developmental sector? Do you mean those representing intellectually disabled people?

They’re the biggest. I certainly don’t represent them but we’re on the same page. They are very active on this issue and I agree with thrm:

About Inclusion Canada | Inclusion Canada

Inclusion Canada is a national federation of people with an intellectual disability, their families, allies, and organizations working to advance the full inclusion and human rights of people with an intellectual disability.
inclusioncanada.ca inclusioncanada.ca

The coalition of different organizations mounting a Supreme Court challenge are here listed on this page.
The coalition includes national disability organizations Inclusion Canada, the Council of Canadians with Disabilities (CCD), Indigenous Disability Canada (IDC/BCANDS), and DAWN Canada, as well as two individuals who have been harmed by Track 2 MAiD.
The CCD members are:

Member Organizations And Members At Large​

CCD's members are provincial/territorial cross-disability, consumer-controlled, human rights organizations and national uni- and cross-disability, consumer-controlled, human rights organizations and six individual members at large ensuring a intersectional council.

The member organizations and members at large are:



PRESS RELEASE: Disability Rights Coalition Challenges Discriminatory Sections of Canada’s Assisted Dying Law in Court – Inclusion Canada

inclusioncanada.ca inclusioncanada.ca


About the UN concern:

PRESS RELEASE – A Person Dying Everyday: Canadian Disability Advocates Highlight Canada’s Controversial MAiD Program at United Nations Review – Inclusion Canada

inclusioncanada.ca inclusioncanada.ca

A UN report from 2021:

www.ohchr.org

Disability is not a reason to sanction medically assisted dying – UN experts

GENEVA (25 January 2021) – UN human rights experts today expressed alarm at a growing trend to enact legislation enabling access to medically assisted dying based largely on having a disability or disabling conditions, including in old age. “We all accept that it could never be a well-reasoned...
www.ohchr.org www.ohchr.org

“Under no circumstance should the law provide that it could be a well-reasoned decision for a person with a disabling condition who is not dying to terminate their life with the support of the State.”


The experts said that even when access to medical assistance in dying is restricted to those at the end of life or with a terminal illness, people with disabilities, older persons, and especially older persons with disabilities, may feel subtly pressured to end their lives prematurely due to attitudinal barriers as well as the lack of appropriate services and support.

As you can see I’m not a minority point of view from the broader disability community and the UN also agrees. That’s pretty comprehensive I think.
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Correction, speaking of ableism. My error: As per Inclusion Canada. People with intellectual disabilities prefer to be referred to that way, using people first language. I said “intellectually disabled” which is disrespectful to them. Otherwise, now, disabled people usually prefer to be referred to as disabled not “person with a disability” - ask the person. In official capacity we’re still referred to as “people/ persons with disabilities”.
 
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Hey @Mendalla
Your thread seems to have headed south. If I were the thread starter I would request to have it locked.

But it's up to you, of course.

MAiD is a huge topic and perhaps we would be better served by a fresh start on one particular aspect of it.
 
paradox3 said:
Hey @Mendalla
Your thread seems to have headed south. If I were the thread starter I would request to have it locked.

But it's up to you, of course.

MAiD is a huge topic and perhaps we would be better served by a fresh start on one particular aspect of it.
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It is what it is. I have been a non-participant save during the recent blowup. My opinions on the subject have not changed significantly in years, certainly not due to this thread. I was in favour of what we call Track 1 now (terminal cases) for decades, long before WC or WC2 even existed, with due diligence of course. Track 2 I am uncomfortable with and think we moved too quickly. If someone want to boot up a new thread and let this one die, go for it.
 
A study group might be a good idea if we had a particular resource we wanted to look at. Book, article, etc.

Not saying I want to start it but I might participate.
 
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