GENESIS: Snoopy's Short & Snappy Review

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The psychiatrist Dr. James R. Wilkes wrote a book in 1993 called To Wrestle and To Dance.

I knew him at work although I didn't work with him directly. He treated kids & teens in the outpatient department. I was on the adult inpatient unit.

Jim was a super interesting guy. I read his book but I don't remember much about it.
 
Just found Jim's obituary on-line. He passed away in 2023. I was thinking he was an Anglican priest as well as a doctor. The obit indicates he held an MDiv.
 
The wrestler changes Jacob's name to "Israel," which means "one who wrestles with God"--which has profound implications for our relationship with Gof.
The OT prophets will now use "Jacob" and "Israel" interchangeably to designate God's chosen people.
Then Jacob reciprocates by asking the wrestler his name, a stupid question because (1) the wrestler has just told him He is God and (2) the wrestler has just given him a name that means "one who has wrestled with God."

So why does God refuse to offer His name? Because at that time, people thought that a divine name expresses the divine essence and God does not want to be put in a theological box in that way. Notice the OT pattern here. (1) When Samson's father, Manoah, asks "the angel of the Lord" His name, the angel indignnantly responds like Jacob's wrestling partner, "Why do you want to know my name (Judges 13:18)?" (2) When Moses asks God His name at the burning Bush, God is again characteristically evasive. Instead of offering a name, God substitutes a phrase "Tell them "I am whatever I am" or, better, "I will be whatever I will be" ... has sent you (Exodus 3:14)." Thus, God alerts Moses to the danger of an anthropomorphic understanding of His nature and instead wants to be known by His gracious acts of deliverance. God puts it this way to Isaiah:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth. so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:7-8)."
"
 
I've often wondered about the "hip" thing; is it a euphemism for something else? I found an article that suggested that it was God's way of ensuring that Jacob had only 12 children by giving him a sciatic nerve energy that would lead to ED...
 
Mystic said:
The wrestler changes Jacob's name to "Israel," which means "one who wrestles with God"--which has profound implications for our relationship with Gof.
The OT prophets will now use "Jacob" and "Israel" interchangeably to designate God's chosen people.
Then Jacob reciprocates by asking the wrestler his name, a stupid question because (1) the wrestler has just told him He is God and (2) the wrestler has just given him a name that means "one who has wrestled with God."

So why does God refuse to offer His name? Because at that time, people thought that a divine name expresses the divine essence and God does not want to be put in a theological box in that way. Notice the OT pattern here. (1) When Samson's father, Manoah, asks "the angel of the Lord" His name, the angel indignnantly responds like Jacob's wrestling partner, "Why do you want to know my name (Judges 13:18)?" (2) When Moses asks God His name at the burning Bush, God is again characteristically evasive. Instead of offering a name, God substitutes a phrase "Tell them "I am whatever I am" or, better, "I will be whatever I will be" ... has sent you (Exodus 3:14)." Thus, God alerts Moses to the danger of an anthropomorphic understanding of His nature and instead wants to be known by His gracious acts of deliverance. God puts it this way to Isaiah:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth. so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:7-8)."
"
Click to expand...
Could ," the wrestler" have been a lesser God that is now an angel, as "One God" now takes its place as the only God amongst the sons of God?
I also wonder why the angel has to leave by sunrise.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I've often wondered about the "hip" thing; is it a euphemism for something else? I found an article that suggested that it was God's way of ensuring that Jacob had only 12 children by giving him a sciatic nerve energy that would lead to ED...
Click to expand...
Ive read a few theories, one was it was punishment for stealing the birthright, even though it's possible God favoured Jacob anyway. Jacob would not let the angel go because he wanted God's blessing....
 
Waterfall said:
Could ," the wrestler" have been a lesser God that is now an angel, as "One God" now takes its place as the only God amongst the sons of God?
I also wonder why the angel has to leave by sunrise.
Click to expand...
No, Israel would never trace their nasme and identity to a lesser god.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I've often wondered about the "hip" thing; is it a euphemism for something else? I found an article that suggested that it was God's way of ensuring that Jacob had only 12 children by giving him a sciatic nerve energy that would lead to ED...
Click to expand...
Only problem with this theory is that later in Genesis, Jacob and Rachel will have Benjamin.
 
Mystic said:
In John 1:51 Jesus embraces the widespread early Christian view that the rock on which Jacob sleeps is a type of Christ:

"And He said to him (Nathanael): Very truly I tell you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."

In addressing Nathanael, why does Jesus invoke the image of angels ascending and descending on Jacob's rock (= Christ)?
Because Jesus has just addressed Nathanael with an image that invokes Jacob's "guile" in robbing Esau of his birthright:

"When Jesus saw Nathanael coming towards Him, He said of him: Here is a true Israelite in whom is no guile (1:47)."

Why the odd address of Nathanael as "a true Israelite?"
Because in the story of Jacob's vision of wrestling with God (Genesis 32:28), God changes Jacob's name to "Israel."
What this poetic symbolism means is that Nathanael is never literally intended to witness angels ascending and descending on the Christ rock.
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I do not see how you got your conclusion.
 
Hello again. Here is Genesis 33.

Snoopy's Snappy Review:
Jacob and Esau arrive at peace between them. Heartwarming! :)

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 33 - New English Translation

Jacob Meets Esau - Jacob looked up and saw that Esau was coming along with 400 men. So he divided the children among Leah, Rachel, and the two female servants. He put the servants and their children in front, with Leah and her children behind them, and Rachel and Joseph behind them. But Jacob...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

Jacob bows down before Esau and the brothers are reconciled. An embrace, a kiss and many tears are involved.

Jacob asks Esau to accept the herds of animals as a gift. At first, Esau declines because he has plenty of his own but he is persuaded by is brother to take them.

Esau suggests they travel together but Jacob explains he must move slowly. The children are young and some of the cattle & sheep are nursing.

Esau returns to Seir. Jacob goes on to Sukkoth where he builds a house and shelters for the livestock.

He comes safely to the city of Shechem in Canaan where he buys land. He sets up an altar and calls it The God of Israel is God.
 
Interesting story of repentance and forgiveness. No words are exchanged between the brothers which means there is no rehashing of the past. None of any kind.

A detail to note in the story is that when Jacob prepares to meet Esau, he leads the family.

His 2 concubines and their 4 sons follow him.
Leah and her 6 sons and only daughter come next.
Rachel and Joseph occupy the safest place at the back.

It seems that Rachel is still Jacob's favourite wife. The concubines are lowest in the family hierarchy.
 
I'm glad to read Jacob and Esau have made up. So far in Genesis twins seem to have not been able to get along...possibly because of the birthright that is given to the eldest. In my experience in our day and age twins tend to have an unusual and special connection that creates a bond.
 
Today I seem to be especially drawn to the line, " He sets up a special alter,and calls it, the God of Israel is God".
This brings me back to the previous days reading about Jacob wrestling with the angel or God. Upon further reading about this, and wondering why this angel/God had to leave by daybreak, it seems this God was considered the Moon God and of course it had to leave before the sun came up.
About the moon:

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Moon, Blessing of the

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
 
And this about the Sun:

Sun

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
 
Jacob has reconciled now with both Laban and Esau and he has built an altar to the God of Israel. And, of course, he has returned with his large family and his possessions to Canaan.

Is this a turning point in the story? I recall only a few details about the rest of Genesis, so I am really not sure. But it has that feel.
 
Mystic said:
If Jesus were promising Nathanael a literal vision of angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man,
the Fourth Gospel would surely have reported the fulfillment of this promise.
Click to expand...
Nathaneal is never mentioned again.
 
Mystic said:
LOL, your pontification is refuted by Jesus' resurrection appearance to Nathanael. among 6 others. in John 21:2!
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Just looked back to our discussion about Genesis 28 upthread to understand this little dispute.

As you mentioned, John 1:51 seems to echo Jacob's dream. Jacob saw a staircase to the heavens with angels ascending and descending.

You refer back to the stone on which Jacob laid his head and connect it with Christ. Jim doesn't come to the same conclusion.

Seems like a reasonable conversation for a thread like this one.

I don't quite follow the exchange between the two of you about whether or not Nathanael is ever seen again. But I don't see any pontification from @jimkenney12
 
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