Lord, It's Hard to be Humble: Philippians 2: 1-18

[Mendalla]

In the book of Philippians, Paul is in prison and writing to the church in Philippi to encourage them and offer some guidance. In the first part of the 2nd chapter, he talks about the importance of unity and love in the community, and talks about the role of humility in that.

Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2:1-18 - New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition

Imitating Christ’s Humility - If, then, there is any comfort in Christ, any consolation from love, any partnership in the Spirit, any tender affection and sympathy, make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish...

www.biblegateway.com

An interesting section is the "hymn" in verses 5-11 which reviews the career of Jesus himself, emphasizing his humility. Reading through some commentaries, many regard this as something Paul might have adapted from an existing hymn, though the argument that he composed it himself is out there, too.

It is an interesting piece on human relations in general, on how humility can help us work together.

So what do you take away from this?

What might have been going on in the community to prompt this exhortation? Philippians 4:2-3 says, "2 I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 Yes, and I ask you also, my loyal companion,[a] help these women, for they have struggled beside me in the work of the gospel, together with Clement and the rest of my coworkers, whose names are in the book of life." That seems to suggest some kind of conflict among the leadership in Philippi.

What do you think of Paul's teaching here? Is humility necessary for unity?

What other messages might be found in this passage? Certainly, some of the commentaries I am reading as research point out that the "hymn" has been mined for doctrine as well as the message about humility.

And feel free to pull in more of Philippians. Philippians 1 offers some interesting insight into Paul, especially the image of him preaching to his guards and fellow prisoners before setting the stage for this discourse on humility and unity.

 

[paradox3]

Theological ponderings aside, the text really focuses on the good of the community as a whole.

I wonder what was happening to merit this admonishment from Paul. Was it a theological dispute? Is that why Paul is zeroing in on the nature of Christ?

Or was it the first century equivalent of whether or not we need new drapes for the sanctuary?

Philippians is a short book. I will read the whole thing and see what else jumps out at me later.

 

[Luce NDs]

Say something intellectually enlightening and the powers will certainly put you in an underdog position as Caesar declared; brute, is it in the ribs (et us)?

Conclusion ... rationale is out ...

 

[Mystic]

"... in humility ESTEEM OTHERS as better than yourself (2:3)."
We must love our neighbor the same as ourselves, but esteem our brothers and sisters in Christ as better than ourselves. That's because we must judge ourselves with critical honesty, but recognize the dangers of judging others whom we don't know as well as we know ourselves.

Euodia, a name that means "sweet odor," is evidently making a big stink over how she and Syntyche want to run their house churches, including their regular house church meals. It may seem natural for Euodia and Syntyche to pursue their own agendas in how they run their house churches. But if they must act competitively, let that competitive flair manifest in "outdoing each other" in showing respect to each other:
"Let love be authentic... Outdo one another in showing respect Romans12:9-10)."

 

[Luce NDs]

"... in humility ESTEEM OTHERS as better than yourself (2:3)."
We must love our neighbor the same as ourselves, but esteem our brothers and sisters in Christ as better than ourselves. That's because we must judge ourselves with critical honesty, but recognize the dangers of judging others whom we don't know as well as we know ourselves.

Euodia, a name that means "sweet odor," is evidently making a big stink over how she and Syntyche want to run their house churches, including their regular house church meals. It may seem natural for Euodia and Syntyche to pursue their own agendas in how they run their house churches. But if they must act competitively, let that competitive flair manifest in "outdoing each other" in showing respect to each other:
"Let love be authentic... Outdo one another in showing respect Romans12:9-10)."

Thus diversity in the needs of divining ... but should balance and justice be part and parcel ... as against the wants of those wishing more power? Thus many bo' out and take off ... churches empty ... temples of deficiency of attention? You can almost feel it creeping into the social orders ...

 

[paradox3]

Paul has some concerns as he writes this letter. I feel like we have discussed the conflict between Euodia and Syntyche on another thread recently but I don't remember which one.

He encourages them to consider the good of the whole community and provides some wise advice. Let everyone see your gentleness. (4: 5)

After outlining certain Christian practices, Paul expresses appreciation for the support he has received from this community. The words joy and rejoice appear several times throughout the letter.

A theme of Paul's writing is suffering for Christ and he anticipates martyrdom, i.e. being poured out as a libation/ drink offering/ sacrifice. (2: 17). I don't want to say he welcomes this but he certainly accepts the idea.

Does anyone else find Paul a little boastful? He rejects his previous righteousness found in the Law (3: 9) but now has the righteousness that comes from faith in Christ.

 

[paradox3]

The controversy among the early Christians concerning circumcision is also apparent in this letter.

 

[unsafe]

I wonder what was happening to merit this admonishment from Paul. Was it a theological dispute? Is that why Paul is zeroing in on the nature of Christ?

This is division in the Church as per the Preaching if you read Philippians 1 --Good and False Prophets

15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.

16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.

So in Chapter 2 Paul is telling His People to think about what they have in Christ ---the comfort of His Agape ----the sharing in His Spirit and all the Mercy and Kindness He showed them ----Don't be interested in your own life ----and do things out of Selfishness and Pride but be like minded in your thinking --have the same goals ==-be Humble honor others before yourselves ---be in agreement over issues that arise ----

Is humility necessary for unity?

Humility is very necessary for unity in the True Christian life ----True Christians follow Jesus and are to be Christ like in their walk ---Jesus is the epitamy of showing us what humility really is and we are to take on His Character ---

 

[Mendalla]

The controversy among the early Christians concerning circumcision is also apparent in this letter.

It is kind of an interesting take on it, too.

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of those who mutilate the flesh![a] 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God[b] and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh— 4 even though I, too, have reason for confidence in the flesh.

If anyone else has reason to be confident in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, a member of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7 Yet whatever gains I had, these I have come to regard as loss because of Christ.

"We who ARE the circumcision" is a bit of a weird phrasing but seems to be about the fact that it is their faith that is the outward sign, not any physical change or act. That they are themselves the sign of God's blessing, not the absence of a foreskin.

 

[Mendalla]

15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.

16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.

That was actually another passage from the book I considered. And that latter part of Philippians 1 does lead into the beginning of 2 so good to have it out on the table.

I can think of more than a few alleged Christians whose proclamations strike me as more "selfish ambition" than "love". (I will leave it there to keep this from straying into other forums' territory)

Really, even within many churches, there's powergamers and stair climbers who could be seen as proclaiming Christ out of selfish ambition rather than love. Something to think about, for sure.

 

[unsafe]

"We who ARE the circumcision" is a bit of a weird phrasing but seems to be about the fact that it is their faith that is the outward sign, not any physical change or act. That they are themselves the sign of God's blessing, not the absence of a foreskin.

The circumcision here is of the Heart not of the outward sign but the inward sign by the Holy Spirit -----

Greek word for heart
Strong's Concordance
kardia: heart
inner self, center.
Romans 2:29;

Romans 2:28-29

Amplified Bible

​

28 For he is not a [real] Jew who is only one outwardly, nor is [true] circumcision something external and physical.

29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and [true] circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by [the fulfillment of] the letter [of the Law]. His praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[paradox3]

Actual physical circumcision is pretty much a line in the sand though.

 

[Mystic]

Paul has some concerns as he writes this letter. I feel like we have discussed the conflict between Euodia and Syntyche on another thread recently but I don't remember which one.

My Harvard NT professor said Euodia and Syntyche were the female "bishops" of the Philippian church. As long as the church was not yet institutionalized,
women could be in charge of what goes on in their houses--and Philippian churches consisted of house churches. Remember, Paul's first converts came from their local synagogues, which were run by men, but Philippi didn't have enough male Jews to form a synagogue. The closest thing to a synagogue there was a "house of prayer:: for Jewish women 2 miles out of town along the Gangites River. There Paul gained his first European convert, Lydia, a wealthy business woman. So it's not surprising that early church leadership there might consist of women.

When I visited the ruins of ancient Philippi, I also visited the spot where Paul baptized Lydia in the Gangites near the female house of prayer. It was a lovely spot with gentle foaming rapids.

Does anyone else find Paul a little boastful? He rejects his previous righteousness found in the Law (3: 9) but now has the righteousness that comes from faith in Christ.

No, because Paul considers his former legalist "righteousness" to be "sh-t" (Greek: "skubala"--3:8), based as it is on merited entitlement.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It is. except that until recently, circumcision of boys was a pretty universal medical practice in Western culture. How did this happen?

 

[Waterfall]

We are all supposed to be slaves to God and each other.
The vines need the elm tree to support them or they will rot on the ground and the elm tree needs the vines to partake of the fruit. They are companions, defile one and the other becomes defiled also.
Do we need humility to admit that?
All are required to benefit one another through our humility in seeking and serving God.

My Harvard NT professor said Euodia and Syntyche were the female "bishops" of the Philippian church. As long as the church was not yet institutionalized,
women could be in charge of what goes on in their houses--and Philippian churches consisted of house churches. Remember, Paul's first converts came from their local synagogues, which were run by men, but Philippi didn't have enough male Jews to form a synagogue. The closest thing to a synagogue there was a "house of prayer:: for Jewish women 2 miles out of town along the Gangites River. There Paul gained his first European convert, Lydia, a wealthy business woman. So it's not surprising that early church leadership there might consist of women.

When I visited the ruins of ancient Philippi, I also visited the spot where Paul baptized Lydia in the Gangites near the female house of prayer. It was a lovely spot with gentle foaming rapids.

No, because Paul considers his former legalist "righteousness" to be "sh-t" (Greek: "skubala"--3:8), based as it is on merited entitlement.

Do you know at what point the church became a hierarchy?

 

[Mendalla]

It is. except that until recently, circumcision of boys was a pretty universal medical practice in Western culture. How did this happen?

I am entirely unsure even though I was a "beneficiary" of that. Fortunately, that was largely over when Little M came along so we had no issue saying "no".

 

[Mystic]

We are all supposed to be slaves to God and each other.
The vines need the elm tree to support them or they will rot on the ground and the elm tree needs the vines to partake of the fruit. They are companions, defile one and the other becomes defiled also.
Do we need humility to admit that?
All are required to benefit one another through our humility in seeking and serving God.

Do you know at what point the church became a hierarchy?

Late first century with Ignatius as the monarchical bishop of Antioch and the male takeover of leadership roles in Paul's churches in the Deutero-Pauline Pastoral Epistles.

 

[Waterfall]

Late first century with Ignatius as the monarchical bishop of Antioch and the male takeover of leadership roles in Paul's churches in the Deutero-Pauline Pastoral Epistles.

Is it true that the early churches wanted to avoid such a patriarchal system? And Jesus?

 

[Mystic]

Is it true that the early churches wanted to avoid such a patriarchal system? And Jesus?

No Jewish rabbi allowed a following of female disciples like Jesus did, even depending on their financial support!
Romans 16 is in part a celebration of female "ministers" like Phoebe, "apostles" like Junia, and other leaders like Priscilla, who is actually mentioned before her husband Aquila in 4 of the 6 NT references to this couple precisely because she primarily served as the missionary while Aquila financed her work with his skill as a tentmaker.

 

[Waterfall]

No Jewish rabbi allowed a following of female disciples like Jesus did, even depending on their financial support!
Romans 16 is in part a celebration of female "ministers" like Phoebe, "apostles" like Junia, and other leaders like Priscilla, who is actually mentioned before her husband Aquila in 4 of the 6 NT references to this couple precisely because she primarily served as the missionary while Aquila financed her work with his skill as a tentmaker.

But that's what I'm saying, when did this change and why?