Is the Christian story a myth?

[paradox3]

Well, is it? What do you think?

I believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed. But more and more, I am starting to believe that layers of myth were added to the story of the historical Jesus.

The gospel writers were convinced he was the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and made the story fit. Or so I am starting to think.

I believe Jesus was a Jewish mystic, an ethical teacher and an apocalyptic preacher. He was a compelling figure in his time and he is still complelling today.

But I am coming to believe that the story we know from our tradition is highly mythological.

 

[Mendalla]

I was listening to a podcast about Alexander the Great on my walk yesterday and with him, you see very much what I think happened to Jesus.

There is absolutely no doubt that Alexander III of Macedon was a real king who accomplished some amazing things in a very short life, dying at 32 after taking down what had been the most powerful empire in the world for a couple centuries in a stunningly fast and brutal campaign.

But then all kinds of stories started to accrue to that core history.

The story of Alexander cutting the Gordian knot, for instance. The story was that a prophecy foretold that the man who cut the Gordian knot would rule the world. Alexander cheated and cut it apart with his sword. There's just no evidence for the story and it sounds like more of a justification of Alexanders subsequent career than a real story.

Or the even more problematic story that the podcast was talking about, in which the Queen of the Amazons (a mythological nation of women) came to Alexander seeking to bear his child. Apparently they, um, went at it in the sack for 13 days (presumably with breaks for munchies). And then she left, promising that if she had a boy, she would send him to join his father but a girl would remain with her to be raised as an Amazon. The story stops there so we don't know if the 13-day sexfest even got her pregnant, let alone the sex of the child. The big problem with the whole thing being that the Amazons were a myth to start with. Again, this seems to be a way of puffing up Alexander by both having an important mythological queen seeking him as a baby daddy and also the fact that he was able to have 13 days of apparently continuous nookie with her.

So why could Jesus not be the same? No, I don't mean Jesus was having 13 days of non-stop sex with a foreign queen . I mean, he could be an historical figure about whom there are some historical facts (his mother was named Mary, some of the preaching and parables, likely the crucifixion) but who then accumulated a whole host of other, more fanciful stories, related more to his significance to the tellers and their culture than to actual facts about his life (the miracles, the Transfiguration, the birth narratives, the Resurrection).

It does mean that we then have to look carefully at the stories and realize that we can't simply take all of them at face value. Some of them are more important symbolically than factually. I think it actually strengthens one's faith by making you challenge and think about the narrative rather than simply going "Oh cool" and embracing the literal account.

 

[Mystic]

At Harvard I took a doctoral seminar on "The Literary Genre of Alexandrologies and Gospels." The seminar sought literary principles that shaped the traditions in the Gospels and all the biographies of Alexander the Great. I think our Gospels are histories, not mythology--history shaped by the needs of the developing early church. I'll come to our Gospels' defense in future posts.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Well, is it? What do you think?

I believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed. But more and more, I am starting to believe that layers of myth were added to the story of the historical Jesus.

The gospel writers were convinced he was the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and made the story fit. Or so I am starting to think.

I believe Jesus was a Jewish mystic, an ethical teacher and an apocalyptic preacher. He was a compelling figure in his time and he is still complelling today.

But I am coming to believe that the story we know from our tradition is highly mythological.

I do doubt that all of it is a myth. However as there is no contemporaneous evidence for a Jesus person, we can only say that there may have been an itinerant rabbi who may have been called Jesus, but all the supernatural stuff attributed to him in the bible is pure fiction. Christianity is simply a mishmash of much older religions and Jesus possibly a mishmash of stories about preachers, teachers, mystics of that time..
There were a quite a few writers at the time some even traveled the same path but wrote nothing about a Jesus.
For instance Philo Judaeus lived in Alexandria, he spent time in Jerusalem and had family there during the times of Jesus. He wrote many books about the Jews and their religion and there history. He developed the themes of the Logos and the Holy Spirit. Yet he never mentioned a Jesus or the Gospel events.
Valerius Maximus wrote historical anecdotes, yet again didn't mention a Jesus or the Gospel events. Marcus Manilius wrote on astrology/astronomy in Rome in the early 1st century. And no mention of a Jesus or the Gospel events.
Yes there could have been a jesus, but it's not likely the one written in the bible. Whether the Muslims have a Jesus who was a prophet, or the Jews a Yeshua, who was executed along with his five disciples, a hundred years earlier, does not mean Jesus actually existed, but he could have.

 

[Luce NDs]

This discussion could raise phobias on either side of the gord 'n ... some say an expansive gamma Arden ... there are alternate are dins ... and many prefer the chaos ... because of what can be lifted in a storm or Gael!

Anybody read The One Who Loved Tom Gordon? There's a bearing mystery ... bye intuit? Therein the abstract ... ad dtuit ... like djinn there's more to be told ...

Start with Thomas and doubts about what's in that containment ...

 

[paradox3]

I don't think the gospels are entirely myth either @Pavlos Maros. I see them as examples of storytelling based on history. Similar maybe to family stories that get passed down through the generations.

It is interesting to consider the elements all four gospels have in common. This doesn't necessarily persuade me those elements are the most historical. It does suggest the early church considered these accounts to be highly significant.

 

[Luce NDs]

They carry virtue of things ineffable by protocol ... hard to take?

Especially on the receptor end and receiving little ... opioid receptors in balance may assist but over ridden by divisive phobias (cloistered and agora type).

Contact sport is pre requisite ... knock offs? Yuppies? Doubtful ...

 

[paradox3]

I think our Gospels are histories, not mythology--history shaped by the needs of the developing early church. I'll come to our Gospels' defense in future posts.

When do you believe the gospels were written?

 

[Waterfall]

Myths usually contain elements of truths. I used to wonder how a myth could formulate in 30 to 70 years, but then along came Donald Trump.

 

[Luce NDs]

What are the requirements 'f powerful edifices ? Thus eddies, stirs and other dissonance as dichotomy! Disturbing the supportive gods as they rest down there ... up here ... Gaels and turbulence about freedoms ... thus cloisters! Some cannot face secularism in essence! Like crocks in the night in flight ... chamber pots?

 

[Mendalla]

Myths usually contain elements of truths. I used to wonder how a myth could formulate in 30 to 70 years, but then along came Donald Trump.

Some of those stories about Alexander started appearing even during his lifetime. Who knows, he might have been the source of some of them, trying to pump up his reputation. Rather like ... yeah, him.

 

[Luce NDs]

Mace din a pickle is part of a maze in woman ... ET Sur Head value! Tis fey, flighty and sometimes faded in a feint ... syncope?

"Bring down that cloud with the slippery lining ..." Wait till it hits ...

 

[Waterfall]

Some of those stories about Alexander started appearing even during his lifetime. Who knows, he might have been the source of some of them, trying to pump up his reputation. Rather like ... yeah, him.

Then may be off with the timeline, I'm sure there will be foĺlowers who will glorify Trump upon his death...perhaps the apostle Paul had a hand in it along with the disciples.

 

[Luce NDs]

Then may be off with the timeline, I'm sure there will be foĺlowers who will glorify Trump upon his death...perhaps the apostle Paul had a hand in it along with the disciples.

Ju Dean Punch ... Jui-Cis? Grapes of wrath ... fermenting? That mass will bubble ...

 

[paradox3]

Just been thinking about family history. In recent years I have been in touch with two first cousins, one from each side of my family.

I saw a lot of these two people when I was growing up but we have only had sporadic contact since we were in our twenties.

It was fascinating to put together our family stories. We knew different things about our other cousins and family friends.

And we knew different lore about our grandparents. Not sure if we remembered different aspects of the stories or if we were told different things to begin with.

Nothing was actually contradictory.

If the gospels were indeed written two generations after Jesus lived, I suspect much the same thing happened as the stories were passed along.

 

[Mendalla]

I'll come to our Gospels' defense in future posts.

There's nothing really to defend. None of us are claiming they are "false" only that the truth contained within may, in some cases, be more spiritual in nature than historical or biographical. They are wonderful stories that inspire millions, even me to some degree. We are not slighting them by referring to them as "myths" any more than I am slighting the Iliad or Odyssey by calling them "myths". It is simply that we recognize that truth in the Gospels may not be simple, literal truth, but that some thought and interrogation may be necessary to truly understand them.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think I would have to consider all sacred writings mythical. Isn't religious mythology usually the underpinnings of a culture, even if it's not well understood? (I've been reading Daniel Quinn recently, who drives me a bit crazy.)

 

[Luce NDs]

Resolves the MOG as something that the powers will never accommodate! The mother myth is out and thus beyond us ... sort of a saturn or ural thing ...

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

A book that made a lot of sense to me was "Beyond Literal Belief" by David Tacey. Tacey is an Emeritus Professor of Literature, and I particularly like the way he repudiates both Christian and atheistic fundamentalism.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

What are the fundamentals of atheism?
The fundamentals of christianity are I believe, biblical inerrancy, the divinity of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and his return.
So please what are the fundamentals of atheism? And sorry this is off topic. But needs to be ask. Now it has been put forward. And incidentally, I'm not saying, that there aren't over zealous atheists, but that isn't fundamentalism.