TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

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I can't even read your whole post...

Do people need reminding that Hilary and Obama are not running in 2020? Stop bringing them up like they are still in charge. Beto O'Rourke is probably the most centrist democrat who could be similar to them - Biden and Harris, too - but we have a new set of people with a different vision now.
 
Ritafee said:
In my previous post I pointed out how our world leaders follow the same patterns as laid out for them by 'the world order' ... can you point out how George is the same as Pat Robertson?
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I'm saying he's not. I'm saying that people employed by Christian institutions to "lead" are not all the same, and neither are all political leaders - we have a new set that wants to break old patterns but needs some institutional framework in which to work from the inside out, to start with - just like George does.
 
Kimmio said:
but we have a new set of people with a different vision now.
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Are Bernie and AOC going to change the democratic party from within?

If Bernie becomes president in 2020 will his policies not be fiercely resisted by establishment democrats?

If the DNC steals the nomination from Bernie again will he again support whatever democrat becomes the nominee?

Bernie and AOC are basically just 'New Deal' democrats who want to reform capitalism but have no desire to end it.

Bernie and AOC are still the establishment ... products of the political machine ... the war party ... branch one or branch two.

Eugene Debs knew that socialist movements must be independent of political parties, openly anti-capitalist, and critical of imperialism.

How critical of imperialism are Bernie or AOC ?
 
Kimmio said:
I can't even read your whole post...

Do people need reminding that Hilary and Obama are not running in 2020? Stop bringing them up like they are still in charge.
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I see ... so everything that happened while Hilary and Obama were in charge ... and all the presidents men and women before them ... not relevant? Trump is the only one to blame for where we are at today. Just get rid of Trump and all the world problems will magically transform into bygones be bygones. You can't read my post because you do not want to read my post. It would mean accepting that Trump is not the problem. He is just the most blatant in your face symptom of the problem. Getting rid of one symptom is not going to cure the dis-ease.
 
As much as that's true, time moves forward not backward - and Trump is the culmination of the worst of it - but there are some decent up and coming young representatives now. They are "not the same as the old boss". If you've been paying attention, there are a few of them that want to do more than address "one symptom" - but of course they are facing opposition from people who want the status quo.

If it turns out that the only thing that can happen is that they vote Trump out - so be it. That would be better than nothing. It would...be better...than another term of Trump. However, I am hopeful that some new faces with new ideas can shine and replace the status quo. I'll count whatever blessings might happen.

I don't accept your all or nothing approach to change. Some change in a better direction is better than none at all. If you expect all or nothing, there's too much chance it'll be nothing.
 
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Ritafee said:
Are Bernie and AOC going to change the democratic party from within?

If Bernie becomes president in 2020 will his policies not be fiercely resisted by establishment democrats?

If the DNC steals the nomination from Bernie again will he again support whatever democrat becomes the nominee?

Bernie and AOC are basically just 'New Deal' democrats who want to reform capitalism but have no desire to end it.

Bernie and AOC are still the establishment ... products of the political machine ... the war party ... branch one or branch two.

Eugene Debs knew that socialist movements must be independent of political parties, openly anti-capitalist, and critical of imperialism.

How critical of imperialism are Bernie or AOC ?
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AOC is coming into because she wants to change it. Bernie is like George...he's been in the political establishment like George has been in the church establishment...often seen as misfits...keeping up the good fight for change their whole careers.
 
Kimmio said:
but there are some decent up and coming young representatives now. They are "not the same as the old boss". If you've been paying attention, there are a few of them that want to do more than address "one symptom" - but of course they are facing opposition from people who want the status quo.
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Tulsi Gabbard ...

On the same day as the “Tulsi 2020” rally and kickoff, for example, NBC News reported, “The Russian propaganda machine that tried to influence the 2016 U.S. election is now promoting the presidential aspirations of a controversial Hawaii Democrat who earlier this month declared her intention to run for president in 2020.”
  • There are powerful forces in American politics that will seize upon her past opposition to LGBTQ rights and meeting with Assad to neutralize her presidential campaign before she even has an opportunity to tour the country and meet with potential supporters.
  • They fear the impact she could have if voters gravitate to her campaign, which will likely promote her anti-imperialism.
  • Often Democrats do not bother to connect foreign policy to domestic issues. Gabbard is likely to run a rare campaign, where she makes the case that they are intertwined—that in order to make investments in universal health care, education, infrastructure, etc, the massive investment in war must be severely curtailed.
  • Gabbard also aware of the disenchantment among voters, who do not believe either political party has the answers. She understands President Trump is a symptom of what ails the country.
... “If we look at the lead-up to the 2016 election, and if we actually listen to and examine why people chose to vote the way they did, it points to much bigger problems, a much bigger disaffection that has been building for quite some time, that voters have against the establishment of Washington the political establishment within both parties.”

... it seems there are only two parties?
 
Ritafee said:
He is just the most blatant in your face symptom of the problem. Getting rid of one symptom is not going to cure the dis-ease.
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I agree. I like your long post above. I did skim through some of it, mostly because of the state of my brain tonight.

Trump would never have been elected if things weren't totally messed. The Republicans could never behave the way they do if there weren't some dis-ease. And Hillary is the best candidate they had? So many problems.

I had a yoga teacher who said we are in a transitional time. I'm not sure I totally believe that. At the same time, hoping we are helps me.
 
Kimmio said:
AOC is coming into because she wants to change it. Bernie is like George...he's been in the political establishment like George has been in the church establishment...often seen as misfits...keeping up the good fight for change their whole careers.
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@GeoFee - any comment?
 
Northwind said:
I agree. I like your long post above. I did skim through some of it, mostly because of the state of my brain tonight.

Trump would never have been elected if things weren't totally messed. The Republicans could never behave the way they do if there weren't some dis-ease. And Hillary is the best candidate they had? So many problems.

I had a yoga teacher who said we are in a transitional time. I'm not sure I totally believe that. At the same time, hoping we are helps me.
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That's why I think he is the disease - a culmination of a bunch of long ignored symptoms.
 
Ritafee said:
@Kimmio ... thanks for the dialogue ... that is more than enough 'politics' for me this night.
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Okay. I understand.

I found this - a short biographical article about Bernie. His career didn't really follow an "establishment" path as far as I can tell.

I could put this in the Bernie thread but I thought it related to this bit of discussion and I thought you might be interested.

www.politico.com

Bernie Sanders Has a Secret

Vermont, his son and the hungry early years that made him the surging socialist he is today.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
Hate is a growing gob in the Christian Capital ... thus self destructive processes for limiting purposes of run away authority!

All else is humble and below board ... subtle?
 
Who knows? Now that he thinks indictments are out of the way, maybe Trump is trying to lose the election, while saving face, so he can go back to his "normal" life. Maybe he doesn't want to be president for a second term. One can only hope.
 
The best thing he could do would be to say he's decided that he's not running for a second term. Throw him a televised presidential retirement party with lots of hamberders and fake, 'Best President', 'Made America Great Again' trophies...and he'd be like, "Okay. I'm good. See ya."
 
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