The Gospel of Mark

[paradox3]

Jesus here was on the land at night and could see the Disciples were in trouble ---- He walked towards them knowing that they wouldn't be expecting Him to be walking on the water and would be frightened so He would walk pass the boat so they could see it was Him ------but they saw Him and were frightened ---

So you are thinking Jesus intended to go past them so they could see who He was? Not that He meant to leave them alone to face the winds?

You might be right. I don't think we can know for certain.

Matthew's gospel doesn't mention anything about Jesus' intention to walk by the disciples. The story does not appear in Luke.

John's gospel also has a walking on water story but no mention of Jesus planning to walk by the disciples.

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe doesn't think there was any mind changing by Jesus either.

Who can know?

 

[unsafe]

Mark 6:1-6

When Jesus was Preaching in His Hometown He was well known by the people there as the Son of Mary ---the carpenter -----the people were amazed at His knowledge and insight into the scriptures but because they knew Him as a carpenter and not as the Son of God they took offense to His teachings and because they didn't accept Him for who He really was they gave Satan access to blind their minds against Him being anointed by God to be the Messiah -----So without their Belief in Him His work there was mostly unfruitful -----

unsafe says
This is for us today as well ----Satan has access to blind the minds of unbelievers to what the scripture is really saying spiritually -----which make Satan a very happy camper ------

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 ----your quote ---- So you are thinking Jesus intended to go past them so they could see who He was? Not that He meant to leave them alone to face the winds?

I don't think we can know for certain.


unsafe says -----The scripture tells you that Jesus saw what they were going through ----- 48 He saw that they were in serious trouble, rowing hard and struggling against the wind and waves


unsafe says ---paradox3 -----I think all believers who believe who Jesus was and the Compassion He had would have no trouble believing that He would go pass the Boat so they would see Who He was ---Not to leave them stranded ---

-Satan at work blinding the Minds of unbelievers here with your statement I believe ----- I don't think we can know for certain.

unsafe says ------Believers know in their knower for certain -----

 

[paradox3]

-Satan at work blinding the Minds of unbelievers here with your statement I believe ----- I don't think we can know for certain.

unsafe says ------Believers know in their knower for certain -----

So now Satan is at work with my statement? This sounds more serious than wearing the wrong glasses.

I see faith as a matter of believing more than knowing, unsafe. But there are many paradoxes in faith.

On such paradox has me disagreeing (not completely) with your perspective yet respecting your faithfulness.

 

[unsafe]

Paradox3 -----your quote ----But there are many paradoxes in faith.

unsafe says -----can you please explain what you mean by this statement---Thanks

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

Jesus was 100% fully human - and Jesus was 100% fully God. He had (and has) a dual nature.

What are we to make of this:

“...though he was in the form of God, he did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross?”

Is omniscience compatible with Jesus emptying himself?

George

 

[Mendalla]

Is omniscience compatible with Jesus emptying himself?

There is also the question of what "omni" is known. Process argues that the future is non-existent until it comes to pass and is therefore uncertain by definition, even for God, and that omniscience is about knowing everything in the present and past moments, but cannot know with certainty what does not actually exist, ie. the future. So in the case of the bleeding woman, even given divine omniscience, Jesus couldn't have known for certain what she would do until she, herself, decided. Otherwise, there could be no free will on her part. God knowing she would choose to touch him would doom her to doing so long before she ever saw Jesus.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hi,
What are we to make of this:

“...though he was in the form of God, he did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross?”

Is omniscience compatible with Jesus emptying himself?

George

The omni potential of being drained of emotions ... that smoking period after the love'n ... helluva time for those that would rather depart ... before identified as the one coopting with the mysterious nailing!

 

[unsafe]

Paradox3 ----your quote -----So now Satan is at work with my statement? This sounds more serious than wearing the wrong glasses.

unsafe says---- No it isn't ---Unbelievers are under Satan who is the god of this physical realm so your reading scripture from a blinded mind to the Spirit meaning of what the scripture is saying -------Only the Holy Spirit can give you the right lens to view scripture ------

Satan gives you the wrong lens ---The Holy Spirit gives you the right lens ------

 

[Luce NDs]

Eros hued glasses ...

 

[paradox3]

Paradox3 -----your quote ----But there are many paradoxes in faith.

unsafe says -----can you please explain what you mean by this statement---Thanks

Not easily but I can give it a try. There are different meanings for the word and various types of paradox.

Jesus being fully human and fully divine is considered to be a paradox by one of the philosophers (Kierkegaard, I believe). He states that the only way to resolve the paradox is by a leap of faith.

Seemingly contradictory statements are a type of paradox. A simple example would be me saying I largely disagree with someone's faith perspective yet respect that person's convictions.

Irony is often considered paradoxical. It might be paradoxical that I named myself Paradox3 before I realized there is something called a triple paradox (which I still don't understand). I wanted the username paradox but it was taken already. Ditto for paradox1 and paradox2.

Many zen koans are examples of paradox. Like this one: Look for what you are missing in what you have already.

Parables were compared to koans earlier in this thread by @Waterfall. I still need to give this some more thought.

 

[unsafe]

paradox 3 ---Thanks for your explanation ---not really sure I understand your thinking here but that is OK ------

unsafe says ---we are on 2 different wave lengths in our meaning of Faith ------This word Faith has been abused and misused and misunderstood when it comes to the Bible meaning in my view -----

James 2 talks about the 3 kinds of Faith ------God gives all Faith --it is a free Gift to us ------

Their is Intellectual Faith ----this faith we are given at birth ---it relies on our 5 senses -----so is dead Faith ---

There is Demonic Faith ----the demons believe in the deity of Christ and emotionally trembled when Jesus drove them out of the possessed man ----So they had intellectual and emotional faith -------


Then there is Saving or Dynamic Faith -----This Faith Relies on the Unseen Realm ---- This Faith can only be gotten by hearing God's word ------When we hear God's word it inbirths producing Faith in us -----This is the only Faith that can Save a person ------and this Faith is the substance of things we hope for ------This Faith requires right action to manifest God's Promises in our lives ------

unsafe says
So a leap of Faith in the Bible comes by way of the Dynamic Faith ------but here is the catch unless you have the Holy Spirit in you -you don't have Dynamic Faith ------A leap of Faith for a True Christ--ian is having confidence ---assurance and certainty --it is a sound Faith that is backed by God's word that what He says will come to pass ------

A leap of Faith without Christ in Us is Intellectual Faith and is a Blind Leap of Faith that can cause one to jump into the unknown without any foresight and therefore there is no assurance or confidence in what one is leaping into ----Scary stuff

 

[Jaebius]

@unsafe doesn't think there was any mind changing by Jesus either.

Who can know?

Why would he be out walking on the water if his plan wasn't to help his missionaries - he just felt like a stroll?

 

[Jaebius]

There is also the question of what "omni" is known. Process argues that the future is non-existent until it comes to pass and is therefore uncertain by definition, even for God, and that omniscience is about knowing everything in the present and past moments, but cannot know with certainty what does not actually exist, ie. the future. So in the case of the bleeding woman, even given divine omniscience, Jesus couldn't have known for certain what she would do until she, herself, decided. Otherwise, there could be no free will on her part. God knowing she would choose to touch him would doom her to doing so long before she ever saw Jesus.

She had no free will. Her will was in bondage to sin. Oh, and I disagree with this "process" idea of omniscience. I believe all-knowing means all-knowing.

 

[Mendalla]

She had no free will. Her will was in bondage to sin. Oh, and I disagree with this "process" idea of omniscience. I believe all-knowing means all-knowing.

So you subscribe to the interpretation of special relativity that says time is an illusion and that past, present, and future all exist simultaneously? That our movement through time is an illusion due to us being 3 dimensional beings? Because that's the only way omniscience could encompass the future - if the future already exists to be perceived by a being such as God who transcends normal spacetime. And it is a valid interpretation of Einstein's math so I am not criticizing, just trying to clarify.

 

[Jaebius]

So you subscribe to the interpretation of special relativity that says time is an illusion and that past, present, and future all exist simultaneously?

I subscribe to the belief that God, being God, knows the future as well as God knows the past and present.

 

[Redbaron]

I subscribe to the belief that God, being God, knows the future as well as God knows the past and present.

Then what you're saying is that everything is predetermined, and we're just automatons acting out roles.

 

[Mendalla]

I subscribe to the belief that God, being God, knows the future as well as God knows the past and present.

But knowing the entire future with certainty requires that it be static. Essentially, sin becomes irrelevant as a constraint on free will because there is no free will, period. Everything that has happened, is happening, or will happen is determined at the moment of creation and nothing, save perhaps God, can change anything.

Is that your belief?

 

[GeoFee]

Interesting drift!