The Rev. Vosper Again

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BetteTheRed said:
Well, it certainly makes her a completely cultural Christian, for sure. In the same way as a Jew can be a non-practising, atheist Jew. It's a different way of looking at Christianity than we've been used to, but not entirely foreign to our Jewish roots? OTOH, most of the atheist non-practising Jews I know don't go to the synagogue much, and certainly aren't the rabbis... I dunno. And the funny thing about UUs is that their parent heresies, Unitarianism and Universalism, can both fit in quite happily with much liberal Christian theology.
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Both the Universalist Church in America and the Unitarian Church were significant Christian denominations at one time. I'm not sure how the drift away from an explicit Christian confession started, and once they merged (1961 I think?) they pretty much abandoned the idea of being a Christian church, and have evolved into largely a secular humanist group with a spiritual component. Mendalla would know more about the history than I do, but I've often thought that it was a real shame that there's no Christian denomination that explicitly embraces a Christian universalism. I wouldn't personally endorse it for a variety of reasons, but I think it's a voice in the history of Christian thought that's largely disappeared.
 
If Christian Universalism is not embraced ... is alway a sector denied and rejected because of the high erupts?

Well blast me out 've here Scottie ... disseminated or just dissociated from the adverse reality ... more mean scattering ...
 
revsdd said:
Both the Universalist Church in America and the Unitarian Church were significant Christian denominations at one time. I'm not sure how the drift away from an explicit Christian confession started, and once they merged (1961 I think?) they pretty much abandoned the idea of being a Christian church, and have evolved into largely a secular humanist group with a spiritual component. Mendalla would know more about the history than I do, but I've often thought that it was a real shame that there's no Christian denomination that explicitly embraces a Christian universalism. I wouldn't personally endorse it for a variety of reasons, but I think it's a voice in the history of Christian thought that's largely disappeared.
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The Unitarians had already begun to swing heavily humanist through the mid-twentieth century, esp. post-war. The London fellowship where I used to go (and may again some day) was founded in the postwar period. Evidently, the Unitarians, then the American Unitarian Association, had a bit of a boom in that era which was heavily driven by humanist fellowships like London.

The Universalist Church of America, as I understand it, still swung more Christian but had still moved far enough for the merger to be seen as a "fit".

How good a fit? Hard to say since I wasn't around at the time. I will say that I had a sense of some division around the merger, that not all the older Unitarians from that pre-merger era in my fellowship were happy about it even in the early noughties. They certainly went ballistic over the idea of adding "Universalist" to the church's name and the motion to change the name failed (needed 2/3 majority and got, IIRC, about 60%).

And I am with you on the lack of a Christian universalist denomination. While I see explicit and tacit universalism in many mainstream and liberal christians and churches, an explicitly universalist (and unitarian for that matter) denomination would appeal to me. I realize that there is nothing stopping one from being unitarian and universalist in the UCCan, but it's not something you necessarily hear a lot from pulpits, even liberal ones.
 
Mendalla said:
The Unitarians had already begun to swing heavily humanist through the mid-twentieth century, esp. post-war. The London fellowship where I used to go (and may again some day) was founded in the postwar period. Evidently, the Unitarians, then the American Unitarian Association, had a bit of a boom in that era which was heavily driven by humanist fellowships like London.

The Universalist Church of America, as I understand it, still swung more Christian but had still moved far enough for the merger to be seen as a "fit".

How good a fit? Hard to say since I wasn't around at the time. I will say that I had a sense of some division around the merger, that not all the older Unitarians from that pre-merger era in my fellowship were happy about it even in the early noughties. They certainly went ballistic over the idea of adding "Universalist" to the church's name and the motion to change the name failed (needed 2/3 majority and got, IIRC, about 60%).

And I am with you on the lack of a Christian universalist denomination. While I see explicit and tacit universalism in many mainstream and liberal christians and churches, an explicitly universalist (and unitarian for that matter) denomination would appeal to me. I realize that there is nothing stopping one from being unitarian and universalist in the UCCan, but it's not something you necessarily hear a lot from pulpits, even liberal ones.
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There are barriers and baffling divides ... because of we wouldn't wish to know!
 
BetteTheRed said:
Very interesting article. He's arguing that her belief in God, or lack thereof, is not the problem, but rather, her refusal to wrestle with her religion's sacred text.
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I don't know if it is a fair summation that the denomination would forgive a deficit in orthodoxy if it didn't result in a corresponding orthopraxis deficit.

I expect the one informs the other.

Called to the Office of Word, Sacrament and Pastoral Care you cannot meet expectations around Word if you refuse to engage scripture.

Her aversion to scripture is less heretical than it is negligent.

So I don't buy that there is an either/or problem so much as it resulted in a both/and problem.

Similar issue with respect to Sacrament by her own responses to the Conference Interview Committee.
 
There are other books of observation ... but darkened by decree of church nature regarding blindness to those outside ... widows, orphia, etc.
 
I have to say, I find it very entertaining when the rabid anti-Gretta faction who miss Sun News comes out to comment on Rev. Vosper. Unlike the UCCan Facebook group, The Observer hasn't banned me. Yet.

vsucFjz.png
 
Oh, I thought Maggie was being sarcastic with her comment about the mosque.

This Craig fellow seems to have taken her seriously. :)
 
Craigs play the rook ... find a stone and stand on it ... cast a shadow ... even stones break and 'n taalus !

Thus mountains range ... and the fretful fear edges ... people looking over from beyond ... de ithchai (that be itch)?

Some say this is curiosity personified or anthropomorphised ... and humanity can be carved from stones with the adequate butchering of blind desires ...

Put Ur here de Eire ... tis all about grievous passions ... without jealousy and the greens ... eM Ma under the trees? A person of imagination has aspirations of getting about in intuit ... and thus Pauling's Law! Different spins ... in an eddy some triangles may develop due to chaos between the sheets ... blinds crappers about who puts what where ... an imagined environment is all about us ... encasings? Restricts the sausage and bologna bit Aimes ... and Ide can bite ... the primal power of nothing ... and thus we are sucked intuit! Usually by word of law ... without choice that is flat out lied about ... roadrunners? The wile e Coyote was an Hearst and we didn't noteit! Twas busted ... a mire silence ensued ... all stand down ... rest as wee Nuit Cracker! Be up at Don ...

A time was had by ya'll ... now yea 'll must be driven down ... opposed opportunes? Reason for portals ... enlightened pits or heh arth gone ... nothing left by ayre ... Eire? Yes that absolutely nothing ... meit hinks!

Just an opposing word to conjugated justice without something coming of it ... bifurkation! Tis divine schism ... a place to put the real as they shoot, or fall off the wagon ... aspirations of levity your high Ness ... an'elled ringer ... Ma Dame ... as treading over the Adam thingy ... as darkening his portal ...a dorem AT/AD?
 
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chansen said:
Could be. Poe's Law and all.
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Goes to show you we read these things with our own biases. You expect to find "rabid" opposition from the anti-gretta folks. I expect to find reasonable argument. Not to say all the opposition is reasonable, of course. But I would say those are our default positions. Yours and mine.

Had to look up Poe's law before I could tell if I Liked your post or not.

There were a few times on the original WC I wondered if some of the "fundie" posts were, in fact, parodies of fundamentalism.
 
paradox3 said:
Goes to show you we read these things with our own biases. You expect to find "rabid" opposition from the anti-gretta folks. I expect to find reasonable argument. Not to say all the opposition is reasonable, of course. But I would say those are our default positions. Yours and mine.

Had to look up Poe's law before I could tell if I Liked your post or not.

There were a few times on the original WC I wondered if some of the "fundie" posts were, in fact, parodies of fundamentalism.
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Thus foundational rising emotions ... followed by cool down after rogue stumpage ... a period of loss 've thought, or does it come around as in the word versable? Tis a thing comes between subject and object of things beyond us and objected to by the subjective echo and bouncing ego off the belle as ringer ... dead once cracked ... mental fracture that is unreal being I'm told psyche doesn't exist! Thus one has to enter the imagined as the stuff of matter is unreal ... if you think about it with that which isn't ... incarnate?

De Bell appearing attractive as the impression settled ... a mere figment of vapour?
 
paradox3 said:
Here is another interview with GV:

Atheist minister Gretta Vosper is free to continue her West Hill work
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Anyone think Gretta is sounding a little more kindly disposed towards the United Church these days? I have that impression from this interview and a couple of others.

Although (see link above) she continues to lament she wanted a "conversation" with the church which never took place. Southeast Presbytery gave her an opportunity to air her views at a colloquy earlier in 2018. I wonder what else she wanted.
 
chansen said:
The threat is gone. When the denomination is looking at removing you, it just might get your back up.
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Chicken or egg?

Some would argue that the United Church started looking at removing her because she hadn't been very kindly disposed toward the United Church.
 
Point taken, but there was some very over-the-top opposition to her. There still is. I wish she had more fun with it instead of getting testy. The latest comment on the Observer article is hilarious, and I hope they greenlight my reply.
 
chansen said:
Point taken, but there was some very over-the-top opposition to her. There still is. I wish she had more fun with it instead of getting testy. The latest comment on the Observer article is hilarious, and I hope they greenlight my reply.
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chansen, I woud suggest yu just post instead of reply, because nobody sees the replies unless you click on that little button.
I am very surprised about the stupidity of some of the posters there, but I guess we all know Stephen Booth.
 
" I guess we all know Stephen Booth."

Right out of a dark containment ... wholly grey 'll ... discretely closeted ... for discretion and sacred silence is expected ... until something shows ... thus Mulling begins ... entirely ... IC an!
 
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