The Gospel of Mark

[paradox3]

On further reading it is said that Moses and Elijah represents the Law and the prophets and when God says "this is my son listen to Him" it is indicated that Jesus is above both and we are now to listen to him. The huts are supposedly representing the feast of the tabernacle.

Moses would represent the Law and Elijah the Prophets.

I would like to learn more about the prophet Elijah. John the Baptist is said to be his successor and there is still a place set for Elijah at Passover seders, I believe. Elijah ascended into Heaven and is expected to return in Jewish thinking.

In Mark 9 Jesus says that Elijah has already returned and "they did to him whatever they pleased."

Is Jesus equating Elijah with John the Baptist, I wonder? John the Baptist has been beheaded in prison at this point in the narrative.

 

[Luce NDs]

Eli --- light

Jah/Jan --- and old gamut!

Thus the rising hand ... it has to come down ... Ka Rat eh? Hows of the rising sun ... when in the morning you see the runes --- Runi?

Poesy that can disturb the institutional dox ...

For those that were aware of how little we know of the whole dark game to play out ... The Gambler in the Moonlight ... catchy! Sometimes kind've knotty ... shadows in the trunk ... epistemy! Eve in totemic ...

The ephraim sense can add to the chaos ... driving the interested to gof ig Ur ...

Observation conclusions can raise the science of escapism ... extended myth as ankh? Subtle virtue ...

 

[paradox3]

Interesting to consider the interplay of Jesus, Moses and Elijah in this story. I was just thinking about our earlier discussion re: whether Jesus came to abolish or fulfill the old law. His interaction here with the two of them suggests to me their spirits are very much with Him. Yes, as Son of God, Jesus would be more important. That doesn't necessarily mean obliterating what came earlier.

An important passage, I think.

And if we are inclined to look for a "natural" explanation. . . was the day hot and sunny? Maybe hot enough that clothes appeared to be bleached? Perhaps the Jesus and the disciples were experiencing a touch of heatstroke which had them hallucinating.

No I don't think so. Just putting it out there.

 

[Waterfall]

[QUOTE="paradox3, post: 298448, member: ]

And if we are inclined to look for a "natural" explanation. . . was the day hot and sunny? Maybe hot enough that clothes appeared to be bleached? Perhaps the Jesus and the disciples were experiencing a touch of heatstroke which had them hallucinating.
No I don't think so. Just putting it out there.[/QUOTE]

In one of the gospels wasnt Jesus praying when this was happening and the disciples asleep and then awoken?

 

[Waterfall]

In Luke I believe.

 

[paradox3]

In Luke I believe.

Yes, the account in Luke seems to have a few different details. It has the disciples staying awake but "weighed down with sleep." This could mean sleep deprivation which can certainly cause hallucinations and/ or delusions. In biblical times, either would likely have been seen as a miraculous sign.

 

[Luce NDs]

An important passage, I think.


The bold letters are outstanding thought ... when observed from afar ...

A minor observation by those that have alternate BS ... explains anon I-mous! We're not quite there yet ... like eternally out of it? Numinous or nebulous state? Like vespers over the pool ... OHM'ars ... stinking sols?

But pay no attention to me ... as I 'ave been denied by great authorities of institutions ... so obviously I just can't be ... apparently occult and part of the darkly unknown portions of the Brae within ... depressed due to poor cultivation?

AR swee' Tz getting there yet as sapiens ... s the tree of wisdom and life a metaphor to an existent tree ... or is the plot (conspiracy) thicker than we can connect with?

Hitchings with alien legions of legend ... A gnost, or gnu' it ... perfect shade for those not wishing to know ...

Then I often back off in backsliding mediation as recession ... relief? That beyond reality ...

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 -----your quote here -------Reflection: Mark 9: 33-50

The last two verses about salt confuse me completely. Here they are from The Message, which I always count on for a possible interpretation when I am puzzled.

unsafe posting here from Strong's

This is the Greek word for salt used in Mark 9

Strong's Concordance
halas and hala: salt

salt; (figuratively) God preserving and seasoning a believer as they grow, i.e. in loving the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind, strength and in all their relationships

In Mark 9:50{a} and Luke 14:34 salt is a symbol of that health and vigor of soul which is essential to Christian virtue

Salt is a symbol of lasting concord, Mark 9:50


unsafe posting -------This is interesting on salt from Got Questions ----

What is a salt covenant?
Question: "What is a salt covenant?"

Answer: There is more to salt than meets the taste buds. Salt has been used in many cultures as a valuable commodity. The word salary comes from an ancient word meaning “salt-money,” referring to a Roman soldier’s allowance for the purchase of salt. Someone who earns his pay is still said to be “worth his salt.” Salt has also been used to express promises and friendship between people. It was even considered by the Greeks to be divine. Today in many Arab cultures, if two men partake of salt together they are sworn to protect one another—even if they had previously been enemies. In some cultures, people throw salt over their shoulders when they make a promise. Who knew sodium chloride was so important?

In the ancient world, ingesting salt was a way to make an agreement legally binding. If two parties entered into an agreement, they would eat salt together in the presence of witnesses, and that act would bind their contract. King Abijah’s speech in 2 Chronicles 13:5mentions just such a salt covenant: “Don’t you know that the LORD, the God of Israel, has given the kingship of Israel to David and his descendants forever by a covenant of salt?” Here, Abijah refers to the strong, legally binding promise of God to give Israel to David and his sons forever.

The Old Testament Law commands the use of salt in all grain offerings and makes clear that the “salt of the covenant” should not be missing from the grain offerings (Leviticus 2:13). Since the Levitical priests did not have land of their own, God promised to provide for them via the sacrifices of the people, and He called this promise of provision a “salt covenant” (Numbers 18:19). Salt has always been known for its preservative properties, and it is also possible that God instructed the use of salt so that the meat would last longer and taste better—and thus be of more value to the priests who depended upon it for their daily food.

The idea of a salt covenant carries a great deal of meaning because of the value of salt. Today, salt is easy to come by in our culture, and we don’t necessarily need it as a preservative because of refrigeration. But to the people of Jesus’ day, salt was an important and precious commodity. So, when Jesus told His disciples that they were “the salt of the earth,” He meant that believers have value in this world and are to have a preserving influence (Matthew 5:13).

The salt covenant is never explicitly defined in the Bible, but we can infer from the understanding of salt’s value and the contexts in which a salt covenant is mentioned that it has much to do with the keeping of promises and with God’s good will toward man.

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe often refers to Strong's concordance which is I know is available on line. It looks to be quite comprehensive.

When I need a concordance I usually go to my hard copy. I have one that was presented to me in 1966 and I still use it. So I thought to look up salt and found this:

"Salt abounds under various conditions in Palestine, the Dead Sea being only one important source. Its essential usefulness to man has caused it to be frequently referred to in the Bible, both literally and figuratively."

Mark 9: 49 is listed among the references.

 

[BetteTheRed]

The thing that puzzles me about this passage is that, of all of the 'flavourings/preservatives', salt is unchangeable. Salt cannot become less salty. It is NaCl, which is salty on a human tongue.

 

[Jae]

The thing that puzzles me about this passage is that, of all of the 'flavourings/preservatives', salt is unchangeable. Salt cannot become less salty. It is NaCl, which is salty on a human tongue.

I think you're taking it too literally. Sometimes a metaphorical approach is best.

 

[Luce NDs]

I think you're taking it too literally. Sometimes a metaphorical approach is best.

How unusual for a literalist!

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think you're taking it too literally. Sometimes a metaphorical approach is best.

But metaphors must tie into the original in a way that is "true". Dried herbs, like thyme and bay leaves, become less flavourful. So does dried garlic. Peppercorns grow stale. Salt cannot, by its very nature, become less salty.

 

[Jae]

But metaphors must tie into the original in a way that is "true". Dried herbs, like thyme and bay leaves, become less flavourful. So does dried garlic. Peppercorns grow stale. Salt cannot, by its very nature, become less salty.

Think of it as a hypothetical situation. If salt was to lose its saltiness...

 

[Luce NDs]

But metaphors must tie into the original in a way that is "true". Dried herbs, like thyme and bay leaves, become less flavourful. So does dried garlic. Peppercorns grow stale. Salt cannot, by its very nature, become less salty.

Maybe the naivete factor? I'm told by some neurological pediatricians that children are born blind ... some growth and change is suggested in the mysterious area of the psyche ...

There are some highly educated people that tell me the psyche does not exist ... just mindful phantomization!

Resembles an essence of sol digestion ... that inner gnawing ... how else would a person know?

 

[Luce NDs]

Think of it as a hypothetical situation. If salt was to lose its saltiness...

Dilution of the solution to pollution of concentrated powers? Thus deep Ci travels ... with the dark lady! C'est Ca ...

Then there are the children of the eternal ... whetted ears ...

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Yes, the account in Luke seems to have a few different details. It has the disciples staying awake but "weighed down with sleep." This could mean sleep deprivation which can certainly cause hallucinations and/ or delusions. In biblical times, either would likely have been seen as a miraculous sign.

This is what I believe. It was real to them, as was the meaning in the experience. And, it was supernatural, a miracle in that context, even though there's a natural explanation in our time and place.

 

[Luce NDs]

Even MLK had a dream ... he was sick of rejection of the abstract and occult and all we don't know ...

However great powers would not like the coin to know ... so the common can be disposed and eliminated ... thus ass sas son ... tongue lashings?

 

[paradox3]

Think of it as a hypothetical situation. If salt was to lose its saltiness...

This seems like a reasonable reading of the text.

Why did Jesus say, "For everyone will be salted with fire?" Is this an end times prophecy? Is He talking about purgatory? He makes this statement right after talking about hell where the fire is never quenched.

If we are to have salt in ourselves, what does this mean? It could mean preserving peace; it could mean flavoring (blessing?) the world; it could mean purification. Whatever Jesus meant, I think it is important to keep in mind salt was very valuable in biblical times.

 

[paradox3]

The thing that puzzles me about this passage is that, of all of the 'flavourings/preservatives', salt is unchangeable. Salt cannot become less salty. It is NaCl, which is salty on a human tongue.

Googling this question gave me some suggestions that the salt in question might not have been pure but I am not sure what this explains.

It is also possible that Jesus or the gospel writer did not understand the permanent nature of salt.

Or perhaps the question was merely hypothetical as @Jae suggested.