Cheri DiNovo introduces legislation to ban Conversion Therapy for LGBTQ youth.

[DaisyJane]

Jae.

You seem to think that children can pack up and walk down the street to the local UCC. They can't. Just because parents are very conservative doesn't mean that their kids won't be born somewhere on the GLBTQ spectrum. And if those kids are being raised by conservative parents in a conservative church then the church they are sitting in, likely silent, confused, alone, and feeling abandoned by God and their faith community, is perhaps yours. What I find truly unfortunate by your posts is that you cannot seem to appreciate that possibility, and most likely, reality. The truth is that there is very likely someone in your church, RIGHT NOW, who is gay and is feeling anything BUT the love of God when you, or someone else in your church, opens their mouth about anything related to GLBTQ issues.

Your posts where you dodge the question, or use mental gymnastics to avoid the issue, only make you look obtuse, or outright manipulative. Neither look good on a preacher.

 

[Jae]

Jae.

You seem to think that children can pack up and walk down the street to the local UCC. They can't.

This isn't what I think DaisyJane.

Just because parents are very conservative doesn't mean that their kids won't be born somewhere on the GLBTQ spectrum.

Okay.

And if those kids are being raised by conservative parents in a conservative church then the church they are sitting in, likely silent, confused, alone, and feeling abandoned by God and their faith community, is perhaps yours.

It's hard for me to imagine they'd be feeling that way in my church DaisyJane. We are a very loving faith community. We do our best to include everyone. People of various ages, races, nationalities, ethnicities, languages, and levels of ability have all found their home with us.

What I find truly unfortunate by your posts is that you cannot seem to appreciate that possibility, and most likely, reality. The truth is that is very likely someone in your church, RIGHT NOW, who is gay and is feeling anything BUT the love of God when you, or someone else in your church, opens their mouth about anything related to GLBTQ issues.

We do our utmost to share the love of God with all.

Your posts where you dodge the question, or use mental gymnastics to avoid the issue, only make you look obtuse, or outright manipulative. Neither look good on a preacher.

What I do DaisyJane is to share openly and honestly my thoughts and opinions here at Windercafe2. Is there something in particular you want to discuss? Let's dialogue.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Jae, I'd like you to use your imagination right now. If you were a child who found yourself in your congregation, and you were either not straight, or not cis-gendered, what message(s) are you getting?

 

[Jae]

Jae, I'd like you to use your imagination right now. If you were a child who found yourself in your congregation, and you were either not straight, or not cis-gendered, what message(s) are you getting?

In order to answer that question Bette, I first need to know - what do you mean by, "cis-gendered?"

 

[BetteTheRed]

Not transgendered. At home in the gender to which one has been socially assigned. You actually could have looked it up.

The fact that you don't understand the term probably qualifies you, yourself, as cis-gender.

 

[Jae]

Not transgendered. At home in the gender to which one has been socially assigned. You actually could have looked it up.

The fact that you don't understand the term probably qualifies you, yourself, as cis-gender.

So, "not cis-gendered" would mean transgendered - have I understood correctly? If so, why didn't you just write, "transgendered?"

 

[DaisyJane]

Jae,

I think that is where I find your notion that his church is welcoming and loving problematic. Imagine you are a tween, say about 12 or 13, you have grown up in your church. You have friends there. Your folks are there. It is all you know. And you are gay. Does your church really give this child the space to explore their very being in a healthy vs soul destroying manner? Or, does your church spout love the sinner, hate the sin, messages that make a child born gay struggle with the issue that they are mired in sin. And before you go off and talk about how we are all mired in sin, we all know that this is different. This "sin" is woven into the very fabric of their being. It is something God made them. It would be like being told that the colour of your eyes is sinful.

Now let's notch it up a bit. What if your son were to come out as gay? But he has grown up in your church. He wants to remain there but be accepted as gay. How will your church do this? Can they? What is your loving response to an overwhelmed teen who has heard troubling messages about their sexuality since their formation? I find it difficult to believe, based on your messages about GLBTQ people, that your church creates the loving, welcoming place that you imagine it to be.

And please avoid answering a question with a question or a sidestep. How do you and your church welcome and support a lifetime member who has recently found the courage to identify that they are gay? What if that person were your son?

 

[RitaTG]

Frankly RitaTG, I consider that question to be pretty difficult to answer. I've been going to that church for around fifteen years now. I'm not certain I could give an adequate description of any one subject that's been taught and preached about over the stretch of over a decade. If you're wondering whether or not we teach and preach conversion therapy, we do not. Indeed, we don't usually teach and preach anything about transgenderism. The one time of the year the subject has usually been brought up has been indirectly, and during Toronto's Pride Festival. That seems reasonable to me, as a church should be addressing things going on in the world around it. The line of what's usually put forth by the church leadership is that we should be concerned for the people for choosing to participate in the festival and parade, and pray that God might save them, and put an end to such demonstrations Of course, of late the instruction has not only revolved around the Pride Festival, what with Premier Wynne's desire to usher in what we see as an inappropriate sex ed curriculum.

Yes indeed Jae .... those darn dirty gays have contaminated everything and are shoving debauchery down everyone's throat.
That is how the "concern" "pray for those that choose" feels from our point of view.
The Pride parade is a memorial of the riot in New York at the Stonewall Inn 1969 when we just could not take the abuse anymore. The flagrant displays (which I do not agree with) are a leftover of the anger boiling over and us shoving in the face of others what we have been accused of from the very beginning. That is a bit of the history....
If you want to see real wholesome family based Pride events ..... come to Elliot Lake and Timmins when they have theirs. Meet the families with LGBT members. See what "gay" life is really like before being "concerned". I would highly recommend that you get to know us first.
Now back to that "inappropriate" sex education. I suppose that anything that teaches the reality that there are gay people and they just might be in someone's family is inappropriate?
It would seem that the option to opt out that has always been there for parents that object is not enough for you?
So even though I may very much want my grandchildren to have this wonderful education that they should be denied because you don't happen to agree with it? Hmmmmmm.........
I do hope God is merciful and holds back judgement for those that judge us so unjustly. I will pray for you.

 

[Luce NDs]

Whats more popular down Eire ... compassion or war? Mon-et-arily what gives more success in dissociation?

An "out of heaven" concept! In heaven all angels mingle ... black and white and the hole spectre ... as abstract ... vastly unseen by gods children ... cos they didn't wish to see everything ... so they bowed their heads in presence of the great pretenders ...

They didn't know beta? The second look ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Yes indeed Jae .... those darn dirty gays have contaminated everything and are shoving debauchery down everyone's throat.
That is how the "concern" "pray for those that choose" feels from our point of view.
The Pride parade is a memorial of the riot in New York at the Stonewall Inn 1969 when we just could not take the abuse anymore. The flagrant displays (which I do not agree with) are a leftover of the anger boiling over and us shoving in the face of others what we have been accused of from the very beginning. That is a bit of the history....
If you want to see real wholesome family based Pride events ..... come to Elliot Lake and Timmins when they have theirs. Meet the families with LGBT members. See what "gay" life is really like before being "concerned". I would highly recommend that you get to know us first.
Now back to that "inappropriate" sex education. I suppose that anything that teaches the reality that there are gay people and they just might be in someone's family is inappropriate?
It would seem that the option to opt out that has always been there for parents that object is not enough for you?
So even though I may very much want my grandchildren to have this wonderful education that they should be denied because you don't happen to agree with it? Hmmmmmm.........
I do hope God is merciful and holds back judgement for those that judge us so unjustly. I will pray for you.

How many do hate to love the alien ... a mental case for adept investigation? One might find compassion (all encompassing eL-uv) missing! Sort of like the immune mind dis ease ... odd when looked at from beyond the situation ... those out-there ... borderline characters ... peaking under the power of hedging B'ETs in de gorse of things ... base entanglement conjecture ... like Fermi's thingy? Some reflection prerequisite, or prescient as fore sight?