Who’s to Blame for the Riots? Sermon by John MacArthur

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Ritafee

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No idea. I doubt it would matter at this point.
You doubt that it matters at this point ...

Even though the RCMP knew that a gunman with a prior history of violence was on the loose in Portapique, N.S., the police force failed to protect the public from the shooter and failed to adequately warn the public about the active shooter situation?

Families of the victims on the other hand ...

The suit names as a defendant the Attorney General of Canada on behalf of the RCMP, and lawyers for the plaintiffs have filed a notice of action that says they also want to add the province of Nova Scotia as a defendant.

Those killed by (the gunman) were vulnerable members of society who relied exclusively on (the RCMP) and (the provincial government) for police services,” the claim states.
 

Northwind

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Why not? My point being, why should that not be looked at and reported on in all cases where police shoot somebody? We always hear more about the perp's violence but rarely question whether the cops only used as much force as necessary to stop him.
They are looking into how the police responded. Why didn't warnings get sent out, etc. I suppose it will probably be addressed if it's important.
 

Ritafee

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I suppose it will probably be addressed if it's important.
Correct me if I am wrong ... people are 'rioting' because the probability of 'it's importance' being addressed currently borders on zero.
 

Northwind

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Correct me if I am wrong ... people are 'rioting' because the probability of 'it's importance' being addressed currently borders on zero.
People are protesting black men and women being killed by police. Was the NS shooter black? Was his alleged crime minor?
 
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People are protesting black men and women being killed by police. Was the NS shooter black? Was his alleged crime minor?
I think it’s coming to the fore, in black communities in the US and something we ought to take note of regardless of the ethnicities involved in Canada - that police use too much force. It disproportionately happens in black communities but that doesn’t mean it never happens elsewhere. I’m learning about how black communities, ones that are poor and maybe have higher levels of crime due to socioeconomics - that they feel the cops are too often accepted by the general public to have the authority to be judge, jury, and executioner. Generations of people saying “maybe uncle Mike did a bad thing but nobody cares about the fact that he was looked at as a criminal before he ever became one and he subsequently struggled with mental health and addiction problems his whole life. And even though he did a bad thing, that doesn’t excuse his murder in cold blood by a gang of police. Why didn’t he get a trial? And why aren’t they on trial? Why isn’t the system that failed him, on trial?” So socioeconomic (and mental health is part of that) factors and use of force policies need to be simultaneously addressed. The both blatant and systemic racism that occurs for POC translates into the disproportionate experience of police brutality by those communities but there are socioeconomic and/ or mental health (i’m counting psychopathy/ severely blunted empathy in there) factors involved in almost all violent crimes regardless of race or ethnicity. In the NS shooter’s case it looks to be mental health related.
 
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Northwind

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I agree with most of what you wrote Kimmio. As for the shooter, mental health is likely too simplistic an explanation. From all accounts he had a history of violence and likely had a personality disorder. He was likely someone who fell through cracks of the corrections system because he was a business owner. I suspect he was able to "charm" or threaten his way out of any problems he may have encountered. Of course, this is speculation. There are people who are legitimately criminals for whatever reason. Who knows, maybe things in his childhood may have been a factor. No doubt he both learned and "inherited" the violent traits. As I said, I'm speculating.
 

Ritafee

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People are protesting black men and women being killed by police. Was the NS shooter black? Was his alleged crime minor?
I see ... so the protesters are fine with police doing nothing to keep innocent citizens from being murdered all the live long day as long as a Johnny come lately arrives eventually and shoots the really really really bad guys and gals dead eventually ... black or white ... better late than never?
 
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I agree with most of what you wrote Kimmio. As for the shooter, mental health is likely too simplistic an explanation. From all accounts he had a history of violence and likely had a personality disorder. He was likely someone who fell through cracks of the corrections system because he was a business owner. I suspect he was able to "charm" or threaten his way out of any problems he may have encountered. Of course, this is speculation. There are people who are legitimately criminals for whatever reason. Who knows, maybe things in his childhood may have been a factor. No doubt he both learned and "inherited" the violent traits. As I said, I'm speculating.
I’m counting unaddressed personality disorder to be poor mental health. In relation to social problems in society, to public health, it is an illness with a psychological basis.
 

Northwind

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I see ... so the protesters are fine with police doing nothing to keep innocent citizens from being murdered all the live long day as long as a Johnny come lately arrives eventually and shoots the really really really bad guys and gals dead eventually ... black or white ... better late than never?
You're suggesting the shooter in NS was innocent?
 

Northwind

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I’m counting unaddressed personality disorder to be poor mental health. In relation to social problems in society, to public health, it is an illness with a psychological basis.
It's a tough one isn't it. Along those lines too, there were many signs that he probably could have been charged with assaults or similar crimes.

Part of me is responding as a cynical retired person. I believe I've met people with similar personalities. They are often scarier than s**t because they blend in so well on one hand are chameleons. On the other hand, their "sinister" side is usually evident. I'm not very objective admittedly on this one.
 
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It's a tough one isn't it. Along those lines too, there were many signs that he probably could have been charged with assaults or similar crimes.

Part of me is responding as a cynical retired person. I believe I've met people with similar personalities. They are often scarier than s**t because they blend in so well on one hand are chameleons. On the other hand, their "sinister" side is usually evident. I'm not very objective admittedly on this one.
I’m not really either. I’ve said before that if there was a cure for psychopathy and disorders on that spectrum, the world would be a better place. We’re not doing anybody any favours in the big picture by not addressing it. There would be less of a need for jobs that require any sort of violence toward others - like military or policing as we know it in certain situations - because there would be fewer of those situations - nobody would be interested committing it or responding with it. Violence would still happen but the kind of premeditated cold blooded violence that we’ve seen take place in recent years would not. I think the world could become less militarized, too. Less people interested in starting or participating in violent wars. Less interest in positions of power and control, less corruption. Less interest in owning guns made to kill people, and in the organizations that protect that “right”. Just generally a nicer world.

But it’s hard to say if that could happen. When there are psychopaths running the world it would be hard to convince them there’s anything wrong with how they run things - or that their powers create or perpetuate systemic problems and that is a problem itself. I could point to obvious examples.
 
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Ritafee

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You're suggesting the shooter in NS was innocent?
NO.

I am in no way shape or form suggesting that Wortman was not guilty of opportunistically dressing as a police officer to gain access to his targets knowing full well that they would let their guard down if confronted by such a fearfully respected authorative disguise .

Criminology professor Michael Arntfield said “wannabe cops” generally fell into two categories: those who have an admiration for policing and those who use criminal impersonation to commit a crime.

The few details about his background and the attack suggest Wortman was a combination of the two, according to Arntfield.

“We see a merger here between the wannabe collector and the opportunist who was using a disguise for nefarious purposes,” Arntfield said.

“How these people were targeted will remain to be seen. But again, this is without precedent on so many levels.”

What I am suggesting is that the RCMP did not do a very good job of stopping him from getting away with it for as long as he did.

What I am also suggesting is that the RCMP and the rest of the 'justice' system seem to be in no hurry to clarify how this tragedy could have happened under their watch.
 
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NO.

I am in no way shape or form suggesting that Wortman was not guilty of opportunistically dressing as a police officer to gain access to his targets knowing full well that they would let their guard down if confronted by such a fearfully respected authorative disguise .

Criminology professor Michael Arntfield said “wannabe cops” generally fell into two categories: those who have an admiration for policing and those who use criminal impersonation to commit a crime.

The few details about his background and the attack suggest Wortman was a combination of the two, according to Arntfield.

“We see a merger here between the wannabe collector and the opportunist who was using a disguise for nefarious purposes,” Arntfield said.

“How these people were targeted will remain to be seen. But again, this is without precedent on so many levels.”

What I am suggesting is that the RCMP did not do a very good job of stopping him from getting away with it for as long as he did.

What I am also suggesting is that the RCMP and the rest of the 'justice' system seem to be in no hurry to clarify how this tragedy could have happened under their watch.
But then, had they kept a closer watch on him, and his weird fetish for police cars and uniforms - that’s where things were starting to go terribly wrong with that guy and his neighbours and customers ignored it - lots in the community were aware of it - you might’ve said it violated his rights. I might say the same. Yet, maybe he could’ve been helped long before he ever planned to do what he did. And maybe that’s not entirely the police’s job, but society’s job, to prevent such tragedies.

Considering it was too late for that, they took too long to respond - and I wonder how much violence was employed to stop him, and if it was too much. I think maybe that totally dead, is probably too much force. Maybe he could’ve been immobilized with a non lethal or less potentially lethal weapon. I don’t think it’s wrong to ask that. Violence begets more violence. (It just occurred to me - for not the first time - that maybe the police’s authority to use violence and force, itself, was something that he admired and wanted to imitate. Seeing as “cosplay” was a bizarre factor. Like an elephant in the room, that is. It would be embarrassing for cops to admit that he admired that about them. I haven’t heard it brought up by them.)
 
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This is veering pretty far into another topic but i’m putting it here for continuity. What Wortman did was monsterous, no question. And putting aside for a second, the justification or not for deadly force used on him, it could be way worse than I thought, as if it could even get any worse. It looks like there are some serious issues in the RCMP possibly being covered up. And it merits a full inquiry. I hadn’t read this, hadn’t followed the story for awhile. This is surreal. It reads more like a movie script than real life.

 

Luce NDs

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Remember! in the race to win ... the powers must take up all resources of illusion to achieve full opportunity ... not matter who is mowed down!

This is all part of insane achievement philosophy ... everything goes ... all ways with the gods of war ... the knowledge and wisdom is a lessor concern ... rather subtle insanity that we live in by rites and righteousness of those that can deny obvious facts and cling to the alternate versions!

These may pop up as illusionary alternate truths that don't test out ... some folks wouldn't even look at the topic from a split concern of subjective-objective survival! Thus bifurcated myths ... double sided ... like facia!
 

Luce NDs

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That is crazy @Kimmio Laughterlove. It does sound like a movie plot. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
How much do you believe this will be denied by powers and thus mythologized by the average folks as paradigm? Future generations will have to read into it deeply to unravel the complex truths!

Tis the conflict between great powers and the ignorant faction ... they must be satisfied with stories of questionable nature.

Even the bible hints at questioning all things, always ... thus turbulent whey ... resolves the cheesiness ... only observed by those regressing to the deep, cool cellars ... hope there is a Tun of whine stored there ... just for profound amuse*ment!
 

Mrs.Anteater

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That is crazy @Kimmio Laughterlove. It does sound like a movie plot. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Since information was/ is slow coming forward, in these times it doesn’t surprise me that all kinds of stories are spinning. Before internet it was called gossip, today it’s called conspiracy theory.
As a child, we used to play this game at irthday parties where you sitin a row and one person whispers a sentence into the next persons ear, that one whispers whatever he/ she heard into the next persons ear and so on until the last person says the sentence out loud. It was never even close to what was said in the first place.
 
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