Which is more feasible, would you say?

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paradox3

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1. Jesus rose bodily from the dead

2. Jesus died to atone for our sins and reconcile us to God.

Which is more feasible, would you say?
 

paradox3

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Personally, I believe neither of these things in a literal sense.

Yet I can appreciate them as metaphors and value them as parts of our faith tradition

What say you?
 

Delightful Life

M&M, Cascadian Lovers
1. Jesus rose bodily from the dead

2. Jesus died to atone for our sins and reconcile us to God.

Which is more feasible, would you say?
I wouldn't know lol


But if God is a Necessary Being
Both wouldn't be more or less feasible?


If God were a Contingent Being...I'd say the 1st would be more feasible?

Have faith--the world is still awesome
 

Mendalla

All I wish is to dream again
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Believe it or not, 1. The second actually has more implicit faith statements that I don't buy into baked into it.

- Sin is a thing
- Atonement is necessary
- We need to be reconciled to "God"

For the first one, one only needs to accept that someone could rise from the dead, which I also don't buy into but it would require less effort for me to do so.

But this:
Yet I can appreciate them as metaphors and value them as parts of our faith tradition
Is my reality, too.
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
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Yes, resurrection works for me metaphorically. We see it every spring as seemingly dead plants/seeds return to life.

Atonement theology is a lot more problematic. Implies that I am separated from Godde, not part of Godde.
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
I suppose that Jesus arose from the dead, partly because of all the weird things they're discovering in space, that does not happen on earth and defies the laws as we know it.
 

Pavlos Maros

Well-Known Member
1. Jesus rose bodily from the dead

2. Jesus died to atone for our sins and reconcile us to God.

Which is more feasible, would you say?
Neither.

Without first showing that our physics are totally wrong.
That makes the first question moot.
And the second is moot too, because without first showing that a god per se is probable.

(And sadly that isn't possible.The only way to arrive at a probability would be to assign a prior probability to the proposition, this explains how claims that conclude the probability of a god cannot be justified.)

Vicarious redemption is severely flawed, extremely callous and cruel and unnecessary.
If forgiveness was needed no scapegoat was needed either. You just simply forgive.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Light thoughts rise up to be shot down by psychopaths and common people buy into this regularly as they believe falsely that this is the way to succeed ... but it gets no one out of the swamp ...

Psychosis does not allow thoughts ... this may cause some heat in the night ... if only to amuse the essences with humor of the Haggai sort ... thus the hagga ... phonetics vary ... this may be Kahn 'deh! Here a sparkle may be buried as Mariah's Lambdeth ... a complicated motif ... not for those simply into story telling and such cabals ... expect mores! It is a grand university course that some of the instructors don;t get ... but regurgitate ... as essence may appear that way ... tossed thought? May also appear in a mess of word ...
 

paradox3

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Bodily resurrection from the dead doesn't seem feasible to me at all. I feel exactly the same way about the virgin birth. To me, these ideas are metaphors and always have been.

In order to accept these ideas as literal events, one would need to believe God capable of overriding the laws of nature. Nothing has ever suggested to me that this is the case.

OTOH I am ambivalent about atonement theology. I find it feasible but problematic unless it's a retelling of the Passover story. I can't even come up with a way to understand it metaphorically.

The bodily resurrection and the sacrificial death of Christ seem to become very entwined in Christian theology. But aren't they two separate concepts?
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Virgin birth ... in a word when souls as a deux verge? Takes Tu ... ET is the word of Caesar when the brute nature of Roman emotions caught him ... possibly without Pans ... devilish trousers compared to togas ... easier to support!

What do we know of such stuff? Nothing as knowledge was declared off limits and a pile of old myths and stories about imagination were torched ... nothing left but the smouldering in Gehenna ... resemble a lady in tattoo or dance ... attempting to catch david's actions ...

Now there was a character ... developed without conscience as in human prototype ... well spaced? Divined ... when the story breaks ...
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
What is better for the light to go out so darker things can occur ... thus the heat from those propped by emotional content ...

Governing, business and BS thereof operate on this principle ... and improves obscurity! May expand into och cult religions ...

What's och? It is non translatable Celtic essence ... blarney about learning of mysterious items?
 

Mendalla

All I wish is to dream again
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Bodily resurrection from the dead doesn't seem feasible to me at all.
Tardigrades and other creatures can come back from states that are damn close to death so a resurrection from a "death-like" state is more feasible than actual death, so someone undergoing something that seems to be a resurrection seems feasible to me even if actual resurrection is not. And keep in mind that our notion of "brain death" was unknown in that world. Basically, pre-modern medical technology, once your heart and breathing stopped (or fell so low as to be unnoticeable), you were dead. So their "dead" is not our "dead" and someone could possibly recover from "death" in that world.

But, yeah, resurrection is a key symbol in many mythologies. It was inspired by things in nature like perennial plants that seems to die and come back every year. In our lives, it can symbolize liberation from many things; despair, depression, oppression, violence, etc. etc. Forgiveness can be resurrection of a sort in that it repairs and revives a "dead" relationship. So God offering forgiveness could be seen in that light.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
There is Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Was this the family of those mountain men that saw the sun rise earlier ... thus monumental Masonic traditions that carved things in relief !

There was a movie with tongue in cheek about the loneliness ... extensions of ethics and standalone figures in the field or Wahl!

Then the question of those folk going against trump's best friends ... treasonous if not a form of heresy! Leaves marks in high psyches ... beyond me! All thsi in faith ... no knowledge required ... but raising question in the alternate factions ...
 
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