What Non-Christians Wish Christians Knew....

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Luce NDs

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Do we live in an absolute, orthodox world or an imaginative abstract world of some greater psyche?

In such quantum state ... could explain the shimmers and temporary states ... temporal? Makes for an indeterminate overriding myth on one dex of a duality ... catch 22 or root square function? Thus unreal numbers are excluded from one side like in RO technology that cause the renal system to function ... balancing out salts of varied types.

Did you know certain salts and particular dilutions may be tasteless? Sort of a synaptic gap or vocal click (clique)? Tsk, tsk ... or Tut, tut ...

Ever see that image of money with wings ... all values can take off in times of excess fear ... it is another norm!
 
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Mystic

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Northwind: "I have no idea what you are saying here. Of course you know rude though, don't you."

Northwind to unsafe: "I'm not interested in your interpretation @unsafe"

You can express disagreements with unsafe, but choose instead to insult her in this rudely unnecessary way.

Te point at issue in Matthew 10:34-36 is Jesus' mission to promote family division. In the next verse Jesus denies people's right to love their family "more than me," a demand based on who Jesus is. On this, see, for example, John 10:33:

"The Jews answered: It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God."
 

Luce NDs

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"you, though only a human being, are making yourself God."

Now I know why people of overt spirit believe they are better than humans ... but can such entities be observed in a rational realm? Then the wisdom of God is just another situation ... given the better than thou attitude. Be as you are ... it seems we are out here denied and eliminated pissers regardless of the command to respect all of creation. Thus that demiurge of the political types put something down so something else rises up ... thank god for the interpersonal essence as a ghostly entity!

Sure does turn some people off that don't deal well with empty bubbles ... and there the globes drift off ... like a scene from Gravity ...

I'm sorry you folks are so degrading ... as you lose something in that function, and the top falls off the mound ... like in Masada ... of course that image did not come across well to the powers ...

KISS??????? good lord some people cannot grasp much in light intelligence ...
 

BetteTheRed

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First. she and her eisegeting progressive buddies don't get the need to interpret Gospel texts in context; and the context makes clear that the division is based on a devotion to family that surpasses devotion to Jesus--a saying that implies the need to believe in Jesus' unique status as Messiah and God's Son.
It implies. It does not say. You and I have probably very different definitions, but I'd say that Jesus discriminates not on the basis of belief, which is a "head" thing, but on faith, which is an "action" thing.

And I don't give a s**t, but "her eisegeting progressive buddies"? Really? If you tried, you could summon up some respect for other's opinions. You taint your own arguments with your aggressively un-Christian behaviour. Your choice.

Second, the Amplified version, unlike our posting progressives, recognizes the decisive role of that context and rightly views the text as unsafe does.
Rightly, really? "Right" is a very western concept, totally unknown to our Jewish roots. You do a lot of disservice to Judaism, and I bring this up with unsafe all of the time, when you dis the fact that if you've got three Jews talking anything, including Godde, you've got at least four opinions.

I actually like the clarity of the Jesus Seminar translation, and the fact that the ideas/analysis is completely separated from the text. Putting it into the text, like AMP does (and that friggin' Message does in a different way) is less honest.

Third, Bette's suggestion is absurd and embraced by no scholar: radical schism is based on Jesus' claims about who He is, not on whether some fail to recognize that services performed for the needy are viewed by Jesus as services performed for Him.
Ya know, I don't care what scholarship supports, or doesn't. This isn't a numbers game. It's about what makes sense, TODAY, not 2000 years ago. Or go play there.

context.
There is much more you could also learn from unsafe's carefully considered posts and it is very rude for you to actually post that you don't want to hear her response.
unsafe has mainly one source: got questions, an openly evangelical apologetics site. That's cool, but we don't all have to use that one resource in order to make a point/argue an issue. Strangely enough, many of my ideas come from my own head. I use resources to shape my opinion, not to form it.
 

Luce NDs

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How do the determined right deal with all else ... that is out there as designated to the end of the Gospel of John. The King varies depending on which position you look at the qwandry ... then there is the Medes and Arch e' Median perspective from the abstract shades ... indeterminate accrued population? Such is the quantum state of chance of placing on one side or the other. What instigates change? This is mysterious source of information ... widely scattered it appears ... but from the butt or hind ... how would I know being denied? Mule dynamics ... the driven out ...
 

Mendalla

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Okay, so here's some things I (and probably some other non-believers) would like Christians of all stripes (yes, I get some of this from liberal Christians, too) to hear:
  • I am not unhappy without God/Christ, nor was I happier when I was a Christian. Really.
  • I am not afraid to die without believing in an afterlife or being "saved". Death happens. Life is what matters to me right now.
  • I really can stand in awe of nature/the universe and not think there is a "Creator" behind it all. I can appreciate that beauty and wonder in its own right, not as "the work of God".
  • I don't think Christians or other believers are idiots, even if I don't find their beliefs compelling for me. The exception are the ones who are so sure of their beliefs that they want to ram them down my throat. If I wanted to live in a theocracy, I'd move to Iran.
  • Agnosticism and atheism are not the same thing, even if they can overlap (atheist agnostic and agnostic atheist are both terms that make sense). In fact, agnosticism and theism can overlap, too.
 

Luce NDs

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Okay, so here's some things I (and probably some other non-believers) would like Christians of all stripes (yes, I get some of this from liberal Christians, too) to hear:
  • I am not unhappy without God/Christ, nor was I happier when I was a Christian. Really.
  • I am not afraid to die without believing in an afterlife or being "saved". Death happens. Life is what matters to me right now.
  • I really can stand in awe of nature/the universe and not think there is a "Creator" behind it all. I can appreciate that beauty and wonder in its own right, not as "the work of God".
  • I don't think Christians or other believers are idiots, even if I don't find their beliefs compelling for me. The exception are the ones who are so sure of their beliefs that they want to ram them down my throat. If I wanted to live in a theocracy, I'd move to Iran.
  • Agnosticism and atheism are not the same thing, even if they can overlap (atheist agnostic and agnostic atheist are both terms that make sense). In fact, agnosticism and theism can overlap, too.
Oh what a lead into Uncertainty Theory ... a scheme a stoic type told me was only a physical thing and could not exist in the nonsense of the processing organ ... min you, a quantum device!

Then I'm told by another faction that theories, plans, schemes, plots, conspiracies are all dark ... for there is a sector that does not abide with planning and preparation for implosions ... leaves a Hollow'd IHC (ІЖХ in some Cyrillic expressions of the illusive self ... once known as conscientious) One should note a bit of the onus on each scattered SOL ... a lesion in space?

What do I know? The hint of what fraction of eternalism ... nothing! My grandfather had a high time with that expression ... like misty images on top of the Himalayas ... Eve'rest as top end snow Job! Beyond that ... more obscurity ...
 

Spirit Wind 7

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Interesting questions and posts. Being Christ..ian is following Jesus's way... peace. The kingdom will not be brought in by force.
I have learned, over time, that God is Love, the Creator and Lover of everyone. God knows we were born wherever we were and that would mean differences. In upbringing, ways culture, education and much more. God accepts us each where we are. No one can move to another place without knowing where he is to begin with. So knowing ourselves is a life long learning gig.
No one will have the same belief at the same moment, but when enough do catch on in similar ways there is power to act, to move on, for change.
I believe we are in that moment in time where we can bring people up to a balance in how they are treated and are able to live well.

The fact we have been given free choice is a problem to some, but perhaps a boon in that when good ways win out, they last.
So, love is God's way and Jesus lived following God... loving and learning to love beyond his first thinking. Remember the woman at the well.
I am Christian means I am following Jesus.
I suppose we choose to hold that like a membership card and little else. Or we can take that name on and learn to live that way.
And be and be an example.
I accept that peope are different and other Religions follow God in their own way, as they were taught., just like we do.
If I look from God's overall view, or try to, I must admit that I have no right to judge anymore than they have. We are following the same God.

So, as a Christian I try to live that as best I can where I am. Surrendering to the total complete love that God has for me,
also comes from the love for the whole of Creation. I stand in awe looking at a wide view of Lake Okanagan, of a rainbow I saw from a plane,
of the snow sculptures of nature, and of a rose. And much more. Humans are awesome creatures as well.

But I do believe also that 'hell' is a human construct. It was advantageous to create fear to bring people in, rather than loving them in.
Humans write the Bible's many books. It has many holy things in it, but it has been used too often as a weapon.
Using fear missed the mark and it still does. And it always will. If we are called to love ourselves and neighbours as ourselves, we have
a calling that many don't. Though at the heart of most religions there is a core that is a call to do as you would have others do.

It is not 'every man for himself', it is more like every one for each other. The all are given equitable ways of coming and being there.
Then the beginning will start again; new life is in us. That for me has happened over & over again.
Perhaps you see some of it this way, maybe not. But it is freeing me to be more like me, myself. I am not supposed to be someone else, but love all those other selves around the globe. Both here, and there. There many ways to do that and you likely know many more.

I am seeing more of that same love being shared now, more than ever before. I hope it spreads till there is a balance in how we treat the elderly, homelessness, poverty, women, sexuality, racism, and how we share food around the globe.
There is enough for all. God made it so. Now we must step up to do what we can.
And to make sure we elect the right people to make it happen.


Staying safe. Alone. Sending rainbows to you all....
rainvow small.png
 

ninjafaery

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I have to say, I don't get evangelicals approaching me much. I always wondered what bush I lived under for 66 years to have not heard "thegoodnewsofjesuschrist". I do, however, have many nice neighbours who for the large part appear to be uniformly conservative in their Christian views and support each other in their spirituality (a good thing actually).
This puts me, decidedly not conservative in a bit of an awkward situation....how do I tread this fine line?
 
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paradox3

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Well, I think it all depends, @ninjafaery

Do you want these conservative folks to leave you alone completely? Have their religious beliefs been a problem so far?

If they try to evangelize to you, and you tell them you are not interested, it probably won't be an issue. These folks who go around spreading "thegoodnewsofjesuschrist" are usually accustomed to rejection & sometimes even welcome it because it means they are being rejected "for the sake of Christ."

But many are willing to live and let live.

Some are even willing to explore with you what you might have in common.

You need to figure out what you are dealing with here, I would say.
 

BetteTheRed

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I'm not much of a socializer outside of my very small usually liberal circles. However, I have a good friend who was in a responsible position in a public health unit who also found herself a member of a women's "prayeer luncheon", largely populated by women of a much more evangelical bent. The funny thing? Their
active faith lives all looked the same: visit and console the widow and orphan, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc.
 

Luce NDs

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I'm not much of a socializer outside of my very small usually liberal circles. However, I have a good friend who was in a responsible position in a public health unit who also found herself a member of a women's "prayeer luncheon", largely populated by women of a much more evangelical bent. The funny thing? Their
active faith lives all looked the same: visit and console the widow and orphan, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc.
Is it strange that many of these things are denied by physical Christianity ... the alternate is spiritual intellectualism with some love in patched in ...
 

ninjafaery

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Well, I think it all depends, @ninjafaery

Do you want these conservative folks to leave you alone completely? Have their religious beliefs been a problem so far?

If they try to evangelize to you, and you tell them you are not interested, it probably won't be an issue. These folks who go around spreading "thegoodnewsofjesuschrist" are usually accustomed to rejection & sometimes even welcome it because it means they are being rejected "for the sake of Christ."

But many are willing to live and let live.

Some are even willing to explore with you what you might have in common.

You need to figure out what you are dealing with here, I would say.
Thanks for jumping in P3. I appreciate the input. Of course I don't want them to leave me alone completely....I enjoy their company. I just promised myself I would no longer be a hypocrite. Gotta figure out how to work that in :censored:
 

ninjafaery

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I do think a bigger issue is what P3 touched on. Staying open. That takes a fair bit of moral courage to examine your views periodically from a different lens.
 

Luce NDs

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Theo*Rah and theology of the last man standing is the winner?? Consider what's under dogma! The unmovable in dynamic learning curves as a bent wood!

Could be the harsh winds when god shifted to gentle ... the well-juiced mist it ... sour grapes have reason? The high and my tyre .... not so much!

I'll go for the win-lose couple in weaving and wobbling through the stones ... well-dampened Ba Silly Ka? Has a hole in the upper ND! (non-determinate; thus vast unknown factor). Hard for some to face they don;t know i' dahl ... thus Idyllwild!
 

ninjafaery

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Is there some kind of inverse relationship between levels of hypocrisy and social contracts? Community is essential, even if not uniformly enjoyable, and I hope I can be helpful. My favourite boss said, "You don't have to be best friends or roommates, you just put the people first and make it work from there". (Thanks Rhonda)
 

Luce NDs

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It goes ron d'about ... Anglo Saxon spin ... with the water monster and all for separation and divide ... partisanism? Both sides against the media ... and thus communication collapse ... silence my old friend!

I recess into a book and read into it ... some great-feeling folks read nothing, some only the biblical stretch ... in conflict with the Gospel of John's end ... anal asses? These are desert critters ... the Gobi has the on*ager travels on time, arriving just right for its elf satisfaction! It is a fine Eire item oh logic Al!
 

mgagnonlv

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Living in an area where Christianity is not too frequent, I might ask the question differently.

For statistics, I think the latest Census said that 5-8 % of Montréalers go to church "regularly" (i.e. at least once a month) and there may be roughly 8-10% of people who define themselves as "Spiritual but not religious". So my wishes are:
  • That non-Christians read less about those "hardline Christians" (and "hardline Muslims") and more about regular people, i.e. those who don't promote fanatic views.

  • That they don't feel threatened by Christians. I remember a former colleague who told me that "he didn't need to be indoctrinated by me or anyone else and that he was intelligent enough to think my himself".
    My "crime" at the time was not trying to evangelize or even to talk about faith or the Bible. It was simply that I had told him I couldn't leave late that night because I had a parish meeting (i.e. meaning that it was not a whim decision to leave).
 

Mendalla

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And I agree with both your points, @mgagnonlv. In fact I could write a book on various fails and bad behaviour I have seen from non-Christians misunderstanding or deliberately missing the point in encounters with faith. But that's not what this thread started off being about so I didn't get into it.

That said, I do not think I have ever seen your second bullet happen. Whenever I have seen/heard a non-Christian complain about proselytizing, proselytizing really has been happening. Not saying it did not happen in this case, but in my experience, non-Christians who are wary of Christians often have good reasons to do so. And, frankly, those reasons are more on certain Christians than on the non-Christian.
 
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Mendalla

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And in my Christian days, my number one thing I wanted my non-Christian friends to hear was "just because I call myself a Christian and a TV evangelist calls himself a Christian, doesn't mean I have to believe what he believes or defend what he believes."
 
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