What Does It Mean To Fall From Grace ?

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unsafe

Well-Known Member
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Many Religions still teach the Mosaic Law today or they mix the law with Grace ---the scripture below is post Cross ----not pre Cross ---in your opinion who is Paul speaking to here ---and what does this line in this scripture mean to you --you have fallen away from grace.


Galatians 5:1-6 below NIV says this -----verse 4 says ---- You who are trying to be justified by the law(F)have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Freedom in Christ

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.(A)Stand firm,(B)then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.(C)
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,(D)Christ will be of no value to you at all.3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.(E)4 You who are trying to be justified by the law(F)have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.(G)5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.(H)6 For in Christ Jesus(I)neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.(J)The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.(K)


Faith%20p.%2015.jpg



So if we still follow the law while we are suppose to be under Grace is this a Fall from Grace ? Grace requires Faith ----there is no Faith required under the law ----the law requires self effort ---

Any thoughts on this
 

GordW

Church-Geek-Oramus
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Grace is not a position to fall from..it is a gift and/or an attitude (depending on how and where the word is being used). Since it is not a position it is impossible to fall from Grace. And since God pronounces all of creation Good at the beginning of the faith story I suggest our whole lives are lived in God's Grace...whether we have faith/trust/belief or not.
 

Jae

Well-Known Member
Galatians 5:1-6 below NIV says this -----verse 4 says ---- You who are trying to be justified by the law(F)have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Freedom in Christ

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.(A)Stand firm,(B)then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.(C)
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,(D)Christ will be of no value to you at all.3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.(E)4 You who are trying to be justified by the law(F)have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.(G)5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.(H)6 For in Christ Jesus(I)neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.(J)The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.(K)

Without Christ we are slaves to sin, burdened by a yoke of slavery to the law. We have no hope. But Christ came to Earth on a rescue mission to save us. He has set us free so that we can stand firm. This freedom means we can be fully human, our best selves. He has given us a new identity to live out. He didn't have to do this, but because he loves us he has. That's grace - he has given us something wonderful which we had no right to. We had rebelled against God. All we had earned was spiritual death, separation from God. Since Christ saved us, we are to live out our salvation, trusting only in him for salvation, knowing that the law is incapable of justifying us. Moreover, our churches must change, increasingly following Christ from our hearts, not just to check off a list of doing the right things. Since God has given us this knowledge, we are charged to go out into our greater communities and share this Good News with others. So many, especially in other religions, try to earn their way up to God by doing enough good things. Let's bring them the news that Jesus alone saves. His grace is sufficient. Someday, when God's Kingdom comes in its fullness, everyone will know to the full that their salvation has come from Christ alone.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
An de light of Christ is supported by what?

That's the dark obscure, unknown ideal ... some say stoop ID as they can't see it! Word's like that ... can hide essences ...
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
GordW ----said -----Grace is not a position to fall from..it is a gift and/or an attitude (depending on how and where the word is being used). Since it is not a position it is impossible to fall from Grace

I agree with this statement ----------Grace is not a position

This is my view ---God's Grace is always in Place for us ----

I believe Grace is a condition not a position ------we can't fall from grace in position but can we fall from Grace in our condition -----that is Christians who have wavering Faith can fall back into trying to get God to move in their Lives by their own effort ---- like --praying more ----serving more ----doing good works more -----etc when under Grace God as already moved and given us all we need to stay connected to Him ----it is up to us to believe and receive what God has already accomplished for us on the Cross ---so for a person who professes to be a Christian to not to rely on Grace but goes back to self effort would this not be a fall from Grace ------in their condition not their position ----the Grace is still there they themselves have pushed Grace away by going back to self effort -----

This is just a question ---Could false rhetoric cause a Christian to fall from their Grace condition ?
 

Neo

Well-Known Member
The "Fall from Grace" is usually attributed to the fall of man as described in the Book of Genesis, e.g. Wiki describes this as a fall from a "state of innocent obedience to God to a state of guilty disobedience". This, of course, is where our concept of "original sin" comes from.

But you're using this term as a change in our condition where we refuse and ignore the gift of salvation that was presented for us. I like the analogy I read once that "grace" is like a gift somebody gives you, such as a new bicycle. You could get on that bike and ride it and let it take to you to places far and wide. Or, you could let that bike sit in your garage unused, gathering dust. "Faith", therefore, would be believing that you could get on that bike and ride it like it was intended. "Works" would be actually riding the bike. We need both in order to fulfill our destiny to become Christ-like, e.g. to become aware of the God within. Thus "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead".
 
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unsafe

Well-Known Member
.
Waterfall ----your quote ----Just to clarify, what would constitute false rhetoric

This is just my opinion

For me---- it would be preaching false Doctrine -----or preaching what we want in the way we want to-- bringing about confusion ---and persuasion as opposed to clarification as to what we all should be following ----the Law or Grace ---for the person who professes to be a Christian and is listening they could be swayed to fall away from the Grace that Jesus has paid the price for if the preacher is using his own rhetoric to his own advantage ----that is the preacher wants and needs help in his church and staying with good works over Grace is being used out of fear that his people will stop helping ------The Grace is always present ----but our condition may change to suit the rhetoric preached ------


rhetoric
-
loud and confused and empty talk;"mererhetoric"
empty talk,empty words,hot air,palaver

speech or discourse that pretends to significance but lacks true meaning:

the art of using speech to persuade, influence, or please
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Neo ----your quote ----Thus "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead".

My view on this

Dead Faith is all about ourselves trying to do to get God to move in our life ---do good get good do bad get bad ----- it is based on us keeping the law or doing good works to get God's approval to work in our lives ---that is show us His favor ---

Grace is based entirely on our Faith in Jesus Christ and His Teachings not self ----So a fall away from Grace in my view is to fall back into self dependence ----

Faith in Christ is belief with the Heart not the Head ------Faith that is born from the heart has a seed in it which gives birth to an action -----this Faith needs no evidence it acts on true belief in what God says in His word and what Jesus accomplished on the Cross ---- Faith born out of self effort is not from the heart but from the head --the head I feel wants evidence ---- it has no seed in it to produce action cause it born out of self driving it -----

When we really believe in a thing the work of Faith will produce the action -----

Unbelief produces no action
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
.
Waterfall ----your quote ----Just to clarify, what would constitute false rhetoric

This is just my opinion

For me---- it would be preaching false Doctrine -----or preaching what we want in the way we want to-- bringing about confusion ---and persuasion as opposed to clarification as to what we all should be following ----the Law or Grace ---for the person who professes to be a Christian and is listening they could be swayed to fall away from the Grace that Jesus has paid the price for if the preacher is using his own rhetoric to his own advantage ----that is the preacher wants and needs help in his church and staying with good works over Grace is being used out of fear that his people will stop helping ------The Grace is always present ----but our condition may change to suit the rhetoric preached ------


rhetoric
-
loud and confused and empty talk;"mererhetoric"
empty talk,empty words,hot air,palaver

speech or discourse that pretends to significance but lacks true meaning:

the art of using speech to persuade, influence, or please
Do you think God wants us to do good works for others whether we are helping a believer or an unbeliever? Did Jesus? When helping others, we do not choose who is worthy ( or at least we shouldn't). Is this not Grace in action? Offering the possibility of a better life to anyone?
 
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Jae

Well-Known Member
Do you think God wants us to do good works for others whether they are helping a believer or an unbeliever? Did Jesus? When helping others, we do not choose who is worthy ( or at least we shouldn't). Is this not Grace in action? Offering the possibility of a better life to anyone?
Whenever did @unsafe suggest otherwise?
 

Jae

Well-Known Member
The cartoon suggests one must have faith to deserve grace.

That isn't how I see it. To me, the cartoon appears to be saying that one must receive eternal life through faith alone. Faith itself, according to the Bible, is a gift of God. We can only have it because of the grace of God.
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Waterfall ---your quote ----Do you think God wants us to do good works for others whether we are helping a believer or an unbeliever?

I believe it is good for all people do good works ----as long as we do it with the right motive ----not to serve our own ego and brag about all the good works we do and that includes Christians and non Christians ----but goods works won't and can't make you righteous ---- Grace comes through Faith ----We have to believe that the Blood of Jesus has saved us from sin and death and that He was resurrected ----verse 24 says it all in my view ----

Good works directed by the Holy Spirit will always produce Spiritual Good fruit because the Holy Spirit knows who needs the help and knows that they will accept the help ----so all Glory is Gods -----

Good works directed by worldly self gives self the glory not God ---cause they are not connected to God and will not produce Spiritual fruit ----and could very well give the person a slap in the face if the person doesn't want your help ----

Read chapter here --- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+4:16-24&version=GW
Romans 4GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
We Have God’s Approval by Faith

16 Therefore, the promise is based on faith so that it can be a gift.[a]

19 Abraham didn’t weaken. Through faith he regarded the facts: His body was already as good as dead now that he was about a hundred years old, and Sarah was unable to have children.20 He didn’t doubt God’s promise out of a lack of faith. Instead, giving honor to God for the promise, he became strong because of faith21 and was absolutely confident that God would do what he promised.22 That is why Abraham’s faith was regarded as the basis of his approval by God.

23 But the words “his faith was regarded as the basis of his approval by God” were written not only for him24 but also for us. Our faith will be regarded as the basis of our approval by God—each of us who believe in the one who brought Jesus, our Lord, back to life.
 

Neo

Well-Known Member
Neo ----your quote ----Thus "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead".
Unsafe, this is not "my" quote. See James 2:17

My view on this

Dead Faith is all about ourselves trying to do to get God to move in our life ---do good get good do bad get bad ----- it is based on us keeping the law or doing good works to get God's approval to work in our lives ---that is show us His favor ---

Grace is based entirely on our Faith in Jesus Christ and His Teachings not self ----So a fall away from Grace in my view is to fall back into self dependence ----

Faith in Christ is belief with the Heart not the Head ------Faith that is born from the heart has a seed in it which gives birth to an action -----this Faith needs no evidence it acts on true belief in what God says in His word and what Jesus accomplished on the Cross ---- Faith born out of self effort is not from the heart but from the head --the head I feel wants evidence ---- it has no seed in it to produce action cause it born out of self driving it -----

When we really believe in a thing the work of Faith will produce the action -----

Unbelief produces no action
Dead faith is just as James says it, faith without works. Faith is important, I have no doubt about that. But once you have faith then what? You have do something about it. You can't expect Jesus to carry you and your cross, that's that not what the gospels are about.
 
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Neo

Well-Known Member
That isn't how I see it. To me, the cartoon appears to be saying that one must receive eternal life through faith alone. Faith itself, according to the Bible, is a gift of God. We can only have it because of the grace of God.
So you are saying that faith itself is a gift of God, and without we can never receive eternal life?

Which is another way of saying that God determines who is going to get fath and, consequently, who is not. Everyone's life, therefore, is predetermined and if you're not one of the "lucky ones" then damned be you, because you will never have faith.

...

I'm sorry but this is a cop out doctrine that isolates and excludes others from "the club". It's crap doctrines like this, (oops, wrong thread), that makes me glad I'm not a Christian.
 

Jae

Well-Known Member
So you are saying that faith itself is a gift of God, and without we can never receive eternal life?

Yes Neo, that's what I believe.

Neo said:
Which is another way of saying that God determines who is going to get fath and, consequently, who is not. Everyone's life, therefore, is predetermined and if you're not one of the "lucky ones" then damned be you, because you will never have faith.

The Bible affirms both that God has predestined certain ones to salvation, and that anyone and everyone can choose to believe in Christ and so be saved. It's paradoxical.
 

Neo

Well-Known Member
Yes Neo, that's what I believe.



The Bible affirms both that God has predestined certain ones to salvation, and that anyone and everyone can choose to believe in Christ and so be saved. It's paradoxical.
Yea, "paradoxical" is a good word for not making any sense.
 

Neo

Well-Known Member
It's above and beyond our human reasoning.
If "anyone and everyone can choose to believe" then God has given the potential gift to anyone and everyone, and it's up to us, therefore, to take the first step. If, however, God is in total control of when and if we ever take that first step, then we are nothing but mindless puppets in a world we have no control over. We could hardly be made in the image of God if we have no free will over how we direct our own lives. What good would it be for you if your parents were to take you to school and do all your exams for you? We would learn nothing.
 
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