• On Tuesday, November 24, the site will be down for c. 30 minutes sometime between 8pm and 10pm. That's about as precise a time as I can give. Our host is upgrading some of the software that underlies the site.

TRUDEAU - Some people think......... How do you feel?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Mendalla

Eastern Lowland Gorilla
Messages
31,979
Reaction score
14,464
I see these as hurdles to jump and not necessarily insurmountable. And this excuse about the US's culture needing to affect our laws is getting lame.....there are many borders in the world that have distinct cultures from one another.

To be clear, I am in favour of tight gun-control laws. This new announcement isn't enough, either. It's a half-measure that could, and should, have happened years ago.

But we cannot pretend that fixing our laws around gun ownership is going to make us free of gun violence. Gun control is part of a solution, not a solution in itself. We also need to stop the flows of black market weapons and deal with our urban gang problems.
 
Last edited:

Mendalla

Eastern Lowland Gorilla
Messages
31,979
Reaction score
14,464
Toronto had 490 shootings in 2019, 248 gun-related injuries, 44 deaths. And none of those were mass shootings. That's mostly gang violence and other criminal activity, probably some domestics. And some of those deaths were innocent bystanders or random acts. Given that a lot of those involve handguns which are already restricted or prohibited here, I can't see that more restrictions on legal gun ownership will help much on its own. It might help reduce the involvement of guns in domestic situations, but I don't think it will do much about gangs and guns. That battle has to be won other ways.
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,606
Reaction score
3,614
Toronto had 490 shootings in 2019, 248 gun-related injuries, 44 deaths. And none of those were mass shootings. That's mostly gang violence and other criminal activity, probably some domestics. And some of those deaths were innocent bystanders or random acts. Given that a lot of those involve handguns which are already restricted or prohibited here, I can't see that more restrictions on legal gun ownership will help much on its own. It might help reduce the involvement of guns in domestic situations, but I don't think it will do much about gangs and guns. That battle has to be won other ways.
I know, it's bad but we need some kind of technology to seek them out....heat sensors specific for hand guns? I really don't know but we have some smart people out there that if maybe they were given some grant money they would figure it out.
 

Lastpointe

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
1,453
There are smart people out there. So why haven’t they come up with a plan for stopping illegal hand guns?

they cross the border. Perhaps in transport trucks? Perhaps in cars. Certainly a option would be to search a random generated number of cars. It would make the risk higher perhaps. Same with transport trucks. But it would definitely slow down the borders. In the other hand they could stop wasting time about whether you bought $500 of stuff when you weren’t allowed to

in Toronto they often talk about stiffer penalties for gun crimes. Stiffer again for crimes used with illegal guns? Though I suspect that almost every hand gun shooting in Toronto is an illegal gun. It is pretty difficult to get a hand gun license and I doubt too many gang bangers would qualify
 

Lastpointe

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
1,453
What I don’t like about this rule, is the sudden passing of it, without parliament discussion
 

Mendalla

Eastern Lowland Gorilla
Messages
31,979
Reaction score
14,464
I know, it's bad but we need some kind of technology to seek them out....heat sensors specific for hand guns? I really don't know but we have some smart people out there that if maybe they were given some grant money they would figure it out.

X-rays, metal detectors, that sort of thing. Heat probably wouldn't show much. Metal detectors used to do the job but modern guns like Glocks use a lot of composites instead of metals. I think there's at least one where the firing pin is the only metal in the gun when it's unloaded. Lots of smart people are working on it all the time for things like airport and public building security. But the guns are keeping pace with the countermeasures.

What I don’t like about this rule, is the sudden passing of it, without parliament discussion

If it was a regulation made under authority granted by existing legislation, there is no need for parliamentary discussion. Just like there's been no debate at Queen's Park about the various regulations being made under the Emergency Powers Act. Government by regulation happens all the time. It's part of how a parliamentary democracy operates.

Now, if it was something that wasn't covered by authority granted under existing legislation and Trudeau is trying to bring it in under an Order in Council, then I have a problem. That's getting more like the Executive Orders things we've seen happening South of the border when presidents have been dealing with congressional roadblocks and it's quite undemocratic, especially in our system.
 

Lastpointe

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
1,453
We haven’t talked much about Trudeau shutting down our democracy in favor of his front porch chats. I can hardly believe that we are having no oversight to his spending. To the new rules, to changes he is making or not making

i am frustrated. Annoyed. Not surprised that someone who admires China is happy to shutdown parliament. And the NDP? what a joke. Did they forget they are in opposition and have a duty to question the government? And four hours to discusss billions of dollars of spending

ahhhhhhhhh!
 
Messages
27,942
Reaction score
3,690
I thought his silent reply to the Trump question was well done. Whether he planned it or not. It said, "I'm thinking what most of you are thinking. What else is there to say?"
 

revsdd

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,516
Reaction score
5,463
We haven’t talked much about Trudeau shutting down our democracy in favor of his front porch chats. I can hardly believe that we are having no oversight to his spending. To the new rules, to changes he is making or not making

i am frustrated. Annoyed. Not surprised that someone who admires China is happy to shutdown parliament. And the NDP? what a joke. Did they forget they are in opposition and have a duty to question the government? And four hours to discusss billions of dollars of spending

ahhhhhhhhh!
I actually agree with you that Parliament should be meeting. However, such sentiments will be immediately met by this reminder:

In 2008 the world was in the middle of a global financial crisis and the Harper government was having to make what seemed at the time to be some very big fiscal decisions in response and it was even about to be ousted in a vote of non-confidence and the alternative government had already been decided upon - a Liberal-NDP coalition with Stephane Dion as Prime Minister supported in the House of Commons by the Bloc Quebecois was set to take power.

And ... Stephen Harper and the Conservatives prorogued Parliament for the sole purpose of avoiding being held accountable. There was literally no other reason except to avoid a vote of confidence.

Every single time the Conservatives complain about Parliament not being able to hold the Liberals accountable in Parliament they'll be met with that. Precedents matter.

For all that, the government is mostly held accountable in Committees, not on the floor of the House. The floor of the House is (a) for political theatrics, and (b) for the grinding out of legislation through endless speeches that don't matter because everyone has already decided how they're voting anyway. To be completely straight about it, the Conservatives are objecting to (a) - they want to be able to engage in political theatrics. Which I understand. It is, after all, politics. But if Committees continue to meet through Zoom or some other online manner (or even in person if they chose) then the govenrment is still being held accountable by Parliament.
 

Graeme Decarie

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,590
Reaction score
1,489
As an aside, China is no more evil than the rest of the world. I love the people of Hong Kong. I worked there for some time - with side trips all over China. I certainly hate what China is doing to Hong Kong... But...
if you want full evil, take a look at more that a century at the brutality and murder and slavery and impoverization of China by Britain, Germany, the U.S.....Look at the support for these horrors by western Christian missionaries. Then look at the amazing revival of China from Mao to the present day.

As an aside, look at the horror of American treatment of Latin America and the Middle East. Give a thought to the story of 1950 through 1960 that never made our news media - The American use of hired thugs from around the world to be led by George Bush Sr. (an avid Christian just like his murderous, church-going son.) In the 1950s and 60s in Guatemala the U.S. murdered
200,000 Guatemalan, men, women and children. Their major targets were priests, nuns, missionaries....
And no word of them was ever told us by our news media. (The NFB has a film about a missionary from New Brunswick who was murdered in that. His body was dug up in the 1990s, and re-buried near his home (close to the God bless us chapel of the super wealthy Irving family. But most New Brunswickers have never heard of him because no news medium has ever covered the story - and the Irvings who own the news in New Brunswick certainly weren't going to tell since it has investments in the American-batttered world of Latin America.

Indeed, for several centuries Christians have been the biggest murderers, torturers and plunderers in the world. And most of our churches have spent those years clapping hands for our killers.
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Messages
17,949
Reaction score
7,968
Seconded. Their regime certainly has its issues, but it is a marvelous country. (I assume I don't need to mention my slight bias).

Agreed. I think it is VERY biased to assume that one's own political system is the only one that works after some fashion for humans. Similar to assuming that one religious system is superior to another.

Humans organize themselves. Even in the most "oppressive" system, in the long run there's at least a tacit buy-in by a substantial majority.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Messages
46,487
Reaction score
3,609
The urge is to goes omb ... get out and examine! Even the bible says to question everything ... everything being collective! Individuals have difficulty with the alloying clause as somos! Relatively speaking we have trouble gathering due to exclusive corporate walls ... the People's House nw has reinforcement!

Rule ... don't ask, don't look, don't tell ... defining sacred stuff! Thus the autonomous wonder of what remains unknown ... powers may get away with it due to self-maid roue's!

The self-maid may be psyche personality! Little inner woman?
 

Lastpointe

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,382
Reaction score
1,453
So. it is ok for Justin to march with protestors and be in a group of 2000 but not ok to be in parliament with 300? Give me a break

and no budget. No plan. Just musings from the front porch
 
Messages
27,942
Reaction score
3,690
So. it is ok for Justin to march with protestors and be in a group of 2000 but not ok to be in parliament with 300? Give me a break

and no budget. No plan. Just musings from the front porch
Well, if he caught covid and brought it to the 300 in parliament, that would be a problem.

It turns out the wealthiest folks in the world have actually benefitted from the covid shutdowns. I don't know what to think about all of it...but I think Trudeau's trying his best two address and show solidarity with two major issues affecting vulnerable Canadians, at the same time. Nobody can predict the economy right now.

Trudeau has done far better than a lot of leaders around the world. For that, I'm thankful, actually. We're fortunate to be in Canada right now.
 
Last edited:

Mendalla

Eastern Lowland Gorilla
Messages
31,979
Reaction score
14,464
I'd say Ontario can credit Ford as much as Trudeau (much as it pains me to say it) and likely most of the provinces likewise. Ditto in the US, where many of the states have risen to a challenge the feds seem to be avoiding or brushing off. National governments have really not come off very well in this crisis compared to lower levels and that's not going to be good for "national unity" going forward. Canada as a collection of provinces rather than a nation that has provinces was already becoming a reality. I'd say it's now here to stay and the federalism advocated by Trudeau's father and others may be finished.
 
Top