Tracking - Possibilities, Concerns

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ChemGal

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Discussion came about with the ABTraceTogether.

I don't see how any of the information from it could be used maliciously by a government. The biggest issue I could see is someone pranking - putting through they are positive to alert others when they don't actually have a positive test.

The tracking capability is so limited. No IDs, no locations. Just a bunch of numbers that connected with numbers. I'm not even sure if things can be looked at from a 'top-down' sort of style. Ie. My phone will store I was near someone who uses the app with #563 and #196 for long enough and the date (so that if they test positive a month from now I'm not being contacted because we were close to each other today). For the top down I don't know if there's the capability to see that #563 was close to #382 and #427 yesterday and that #382 was near #845 ... etc. Like I don't know if all those interactions can be seen by someone. If they can - so what? What's the harm?

Especially considering the things that do exist, phones and things such as https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/eye-sky
@Kimmio Laughterlove
 

Mendalla

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Damn it. I just wrote a good followup to your answer in that thread, now I find you've started a new thread.:rolleyes:
 

ChemGal

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Damn it. I just wrote a good followup to your answer in that thread, now I find you've started a new thread.:rolleyes:
Since I brought in non-COVID app figured new thread was worthwhile. Good response in that thread.

I also keep forgetting - only uploaded data is shared. So the fact that I was close to #563 today isn't "known" by anyone other than my app and 563's app until one of us says yes, I tested positive, upload my data.
 

Lastpointe

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I expect it is just a generic fear of government knowing what we are doing. not because of this app. Just general.

if told to down load I suspect I will. Willingly? Not sure. But willing to give A chance


we know that where you are and who you see affects your chance of getting this virus. We also know for most people it isn’t much of a big deal. but for those it is a big deal it is deadly so I think I will comply for the greater good

just like Spock
 
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The greater bad, possibly. It could just be a cataclysm of events that were unforeseen that end us down a very wrong path because of covid anxiety. I think government control/ surveillance is a bigger threat to humanity than covid is. So is systemic prejudice and oppression.

The big deal @ChemGal is that people have fought and died violently in war to not have governments spying on their citizens. They died in vain and that upsets me. And you think a contact tracing potential spying app is better than 2 weeks away from your favourite Superstore (big deal!). That makes me feel angry at human stupidity. Sorry...not just you but generally - to those who will buy in without thinking of broader implications. It's like what Snowden was talking about, blew the whistle on - but voluntary and more precise - and people are just signing up. I am sure every other major apparatus in the past was slowly implemented under the auspices of something else. Because spying by definition is not transparent.
 
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BetteTheRed

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Kimmio, are your health records not completely electronic in B.C.?

I just don't see how this is any different than any of the myriad ways our activities are being tracked and recorded.
 
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Kimmio, are your health records not completely electronic in B.C.?

I just don't see how this is any different than any of the myriad ways our activities are being tracked and recorded.
So instead of objecting to how bad it already is, let's just make it worse and more specific? What the hell, right?
 

ChemGal

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The greater bad, possibly. It could just be a cataclysm of events that were unforeseen that end us down a very wrong path because of covid anxiety. I think government control/ surveillance is a bigger threat to humanity than covid is. So is systemic prejudice and oppression.

The big deal @ChemGal is that people have fought and died violently in war to not have governments spying on their citizens. They died in vain and that upsets me. And you think a contact tracing potential spying app is better than 2 weeks away from your favourite Superstore (big deal!). That makes me feel angry at human stupidity. Sorry...not just you but generally - to those who will buy in without thinking of broader implications. It's like what Snowden was talking about, blew the whistle on - but voluntary and more precise - and people are just signing up. I am sure every other major apparatus in the past was slowly implemented under the auspices of something else. Because spying by definition is not transparent.
Where is the spying? I'm not getting you Kimmio.
 
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Sorry Chemgal. You are not stupid. You are much smarter and more educated than me in many ways but I am a big picture person and with the bits and pieces I have about the big picture, and geopolitics, this could be really bad.
 
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Where is the spying? I'm not getting you Kimmio.
Tracing people's movements to specific locations is the start of it. First it's for covid, then God knows what. If they couldn't figure out who the people were that they're seeing move around there'd be no point. Might as well be wearing electronic bracelets. Maybe they're already doing that somewhere.
 
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Because we know that in some places like here it can be managed without too much heavyhandedness, we know it's a matter of just practicing common sense and limiting mingling especially around vulnerable people for a relatively short time and vulnerable people being more careful. I don't think mass surveillance is necessary. That's what this is.
 

Mendalla

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Tracing people's movements to specific locations is the start of it.
But, as Chemgal and I have explained multiple times, this app does not do that. All it tracks is what phones you have been close to for a long enough period to be exposed. You don't even have to have your GPS on for it to work, just your Bluetooth. So it has no idea where you were,.only who you have been close to. And even then, it only knows a code number assigned to their phone, not any personal identifying information about the owner.

At least that's how the Ontario/national app works. I have not read up on the Alberta one.

Facebook and its ilk are a far greater risk than this app. They will happily sell your personal information and access to you for whatever will make them a profit. That's why I am not on Facebook.
 
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But, as Chemgal and I have explained multiple times, this app does not do that. All it tracks is what phones you have been close to for a long enough period to be exposed. You don't even have to have your GPS on for it to work, just your Bluetooth. So it has no idea where you were,.only who you have been close to. And even then, it only knows a code number assigned to their phone, not any personal identifying information about the owner.

At least that's how the Ontario/national app works. I have not read up on the Alberta one.

Facebook and its ilk are a far greater risk than this app. They will happily sell your personal information and access to you for whatever will make them a profit. That's why I am not on Facebook.
It's only the start, Mendalla. If they couldn't identify people it would be useless.
 
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But, as Chemgal and I have explained multiple times, this app does not do that. All it tracks is what phones you have been close to for a long enough period to be exposed. You don't even have to have your GPS on for it to work, just your Bluetooth. So it has no idea where you were,.only who you have been close to. And even then, it only knows a code number assigned to their phone, not any personal identifying information about the owner.

At least that's how the Ontario/national app works. I have not read up on the Alberta one.

Facebook and its ilk are a far greater risk than this app. They will happily sell your personal information and access to you for whatever will make them a profit. That's why I am not on Facebook.
I haven't been on Facebook except for one or two days when it was just getting popular over a decade ago. I never completed a profile or uploaded photos. I sensed it was a bad idea. Dystopian. People told me I was silly.
 

ChemGal

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Tracing people's movements to specific locations is the start of it. First it's for covid, then God knows what. If they couldn't figure out who the people were that they're seeing move around there'd be no point. Might as well be wearing electronic bracelets. Maybe they're already doing that somewhere.
Specific locations are not known. This isn't GPS based.
 
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This is what's happening in Israel. The existence of this was not known to the public before covid but was already in use for spying. They deemed the decentralized model ineffective.

 
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Specific locations are not known. This isn't GPS based.
It's just the beginning. Get us used to this then if it's not effective enough, keep covid anxiety going indefinitely, move to something worse and use it for other purposes. That's where this could go. Other governments are already implementing more invasive technology that can be used to spy. Something's not right. You don't have to believe me. Nobody ever does anyway, even though I can see where we're generally heading most of the time. I can usually see the crossroads and broader implications at least. It's always political. Every action and reaction leaders make have political implications. If it's the whole world, it's geopolitical. Covid is a crossroads to a new world, something better or worse. Better for most people means worse for the powerful. They're leveraging this because the powerful leverage every opportunity they see. Thats not a conspiracy theory that's how the world works, always has. I'm not going to argue I'm just going to post what I find and you can take it or leave it.
 
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ChemGal

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It's just the beginning. Get us used to this then if it's not effective enough, keep covid anxiety going indefinitely, move to something worse and use it for other purposes. That's where this could go. Other governments are already implementing more invasive technology that can be used to spy. Something's not right. You don't have to believe me. Nobody ever does anyway, even though I can see where we're generally heading most of the time. I can usually see the crossroads and broader implications at least. It's always political. Every action and reaction. I'm not going to argue I'm just going to post what I find and you can take it or leave it.
Governments absolutely spy. I don't think AB is using this app as a sneaky way to do it. In Canada in general I don't think the pandemic is being used as a means to control people.
 

BetteTheRed

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Corporations even more absolutely spy. Google is totally ghastly, but they've got all my passwords, so...
 
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