There Was No Room At The Inn ----Was This God's Will ?

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unsafe

Well-Known Member
When Mary and Joseph went to Bethlehem to participate in the census Mary came to the end of her term to give Birth ---apparently there was no room for them in the lodging place and they settled for having their Son born in the stable where the animals were kept -----After Mary gave birth ----Jesus was laid in a manger ----which was a feeding trough that the animals ate from -----

Question ------Was This God's will that there be no room at the Inn For His Son to be born or was it just a bad situation that presented itself to the couple ?----

Any Thoughts on this ----


This is the Scripture
Luke 2
J.B. Phillips New Testament
The census brings Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem

2 1-7 At that time a proclamation was made by Caesar Augustus that all the inhabited world should be registered. This was the first census, undertaken while Cyrenius was governor of Syria and everybody went to the town of his birth to be registered. Joseph went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to David’s town, Bethlehem, in Judea, because he was a direct descendant of David, to be registered with his future wife, Mary, now in the later stages of her pregnancy. So it happened that it was while they were there in Bethlehem that she came to the end of her time. She gave birth to her first child, a son. And as there was no place for them inside the inn, she wrapped him up and laid him in a manger.

This is a picture of what a house in Israel might have looked like in Jesus time ----


images
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
Pronouns
He/Him/His
A Bible Christmas thread. Welcome to the home page @unsafe (I promoted the thread. Hope you're okay with that.) I was thinking of doing something similar myself.

Taking this account as factual, I don't really see an overall plan and purpose to everything, so I would say it was circumstance rather than divine intervention that put them there.

That said, I am one of those who views the two Christmas narratives as mythological accounts rather than literal ones. They tell us about who Jesus was rather than how he was actually born. So I bring my storyteller's eye to the story and it tells me the author very much had a plan and purpose to having Jesus born in these circumstances. It puts him in the right place for a Messiah to be born, given the association between Bethlehem and King David, but also puts him in humble circumstances, fitting for someone whose kingship is to be spiritual rather than literal.

And I suppose if one is going to take the story literally and sees a divine purpose in it, then it is much the same only substitute "God" for "the author".

Somewhat tangentially, the Luke birth narrative is one of my favorite stories in the whole Bible but it is very much a piece of marvelous myth-making and part of the appeal to me, being a writer myself, is probably just what a wonderful piece of storytelling it presents.
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Thanks Mendalla for posting your personal view of how you see it -----

I agree His birth does put him in the right place for showing His laying down of His Kingship and taking a humble lowly position in His bid to Do His Father's Will amongst fallen humans -

I see it as a Divine intervention and not circumstantial -----I say this especially because ----Jesus is known as the Lamb of God which makes Spiritual Sense for Him to be Born in the place where the animals were housed -----and He was laid in a feeding trough which provided the animals with their sustaining food and Jesus is our sustaining Bread Of Life -----

So Spiritually it all makes sense for me who views the Scriptures as our Spiritual guide and not just as mythological accounts ----
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Inn in ancient languages was Kahn ... and in here lay the controller of darkness ... something we must pass through to learn of how imperfection destroys the righteousness ... especially if they followed protocol instead of processing ... expect progress when well chewed over ...

It is like mordant ... when a hue sets in ... coloring the fabrics ... another metaphor? It is like deja vue and prescient behaviour ... they saw it coming and if they's been intelligent would've steered clear of the commercial aspect of templar faith ... ain't that rich? But naught much in abstract virtue ...

Perhaps vast deductions majd/maid! And chez carried it off ... psyche? Ci bullish or sibling behaviour ... thus we a re cowed into ide ... and don;t kow what to think as knowledge is said to be genetically evil thus buried in Genesis ... the beginning of losing it ...

Can one really lose it in a myth ... as the God of the unknown ... fey concept? And there it was departed ... dunne gone!

Imagine thin fabrics in good spirits ... a real ripper ...
 
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paradox3

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We had a study group at church a few years ago which compared the Matthew and Luke birth narratives. They have more in common than you might think.

Rev Christopher White was with us as a supply minister for several months. Great guy! He writes a column for Broadview
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Also if you read the scripture it says that Jesus was wrapped in swaddling cloth -----

This holds a very Spiritual message in my view ------it was a sign for the Shepherds who came to see Jesus when He was born ------Many believe that it was first the Magi who came with their gifts to see Jesus -----this is false -----It was the Shepherds who first saw Jesus at the stable -----and the Scripture tells us that ------The Magi came to the House with the gifts for Jesus -----

The Shepherds would wrap the new born lambs used in sacrifice in swaddling cloth to protect them bruises and blemishes as the Lambs presented for Sacrifice had to be without spot or blemished ----So when the Shepherds saw Jesus wrapped in swaddling cloth that was their conformation that He was the Lamb of God and was the real Messiah ------
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Many believe that it was first the Magi who came with their gifts to see Jesus -
I always saw the shepherds coming first in the Nativity books I read as a kid. But I am of the view that Luke and Matthew are two separate stories and tend to not conflate them anymore.

Interesting comments about the swaddling.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
He was mummied?

The roman-Juiced looked after that end ...

NU' cis that even Trump is turning against the Jews as he feels they are over juiced ... it s' rael thing ... and may be redacted ... darkly! Strike thro'!
 

paradox3

Well-Known Member
Pronouns
She/Her/Her
Also if you read the scripture it says that Jesus was wrapped in swaddling cloth -----

This holds a very Spiritual message in my view ------it was a sign for the Shepherds who came to see Jesus when He was born ------Many believe that it was first the Magi who came with their gifts to see Jesus -----this is false -----It was the Shepherds who first saw Jesus at the stable -----and the Scripture tells us that ------The Magi came to the House with the gifts for Jesus -----

The Shepherds would wrap the new born lambs used in sacrifice in swaddling cloth to protect them bruises and blemishes as the Lambs presented for Sacrifice had to be without spot or blemished ----So when the Shepherds saw Jesus wrapped in swaddling cloth that was their conformation that He was the Lamb of God and was the real Messiah ----
Makes sense to me. Perhaps it is a clever little piece of foreshadowing. I have heard similar reasoning applied to the gifts of the Magi. Gold for its regal significance of course. But frankincense and myrrh were both used in the preparation of bodies after
death.

Could the swaddling cloths be the equivalent of a shroud?
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Thus the shrouding of awareness and sentience to cause irregularities for the great unknown to consider ... conned science?

As incarnate it may not appear plainly ... leaving warps and wrinkles in the mystique ... kind of fey! Physical force will Kahn that ... thus innate!

Does that groove well? I see Brennan following the midnight mu' cis ... black as γ is in Greek form and slick in the night ... generating a Y is that?

Much more hidden and sacred to see if a response is possible in reflection ... given time! Sloe genes ...

May be a literary de vising inde squeeze ... literary being beyond the literal and perhaps deeper than at first perceived and deducted ... causing certain indoctrination in the superficial as supernatural! Underlings in the kitty ... meaningful fits?
 
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Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Many will not go there ... unless shrouded ... and thus night ... as many are dais 'd by such irrationalities!

The myth thus suffers continuum ... it is all that goes on under belief in solicism ... beats me! The great singular unknown ...
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Found this
Could the swaddling cloths be the equivalent of a shroud?


---Interesting read ------


Were Jesus’ swaddling clothes actually burial clothes?

Bible Question:​

Is it true that the reason “swaddling clothes” would be “a sign” to the shepherds was because the original word for swaddling clothes indicates grave clothes often stored in a tomb? A sign of Jesus' future?

Bible Answer:​

When Jesus was born, Luke 2:7 tells us that He was wrapped in “swaddling clothes.” There are many wrong ideas floating around regarding the meaning of swaddling clothes. Some have claimed that the term “swaddling clothes” indicates that Jesus had a illegitimate birth. He was born before Joseph and Mary were married. Others claim that the Greek word translated in Luke 2:7 and 12 as “swaddling clothes” is the same word used for burial clothes and therefore really refers to burial clothes or a burial cloth. However, neither of these positions are accurate and they are not supported by the evidence.

Meaning of the Greek Word Swaddling Clothes

The phrase “swaddling clothes” is a translation of the root Greek word sparganoo. The word appears in only two verses in the New Testament, both times in Luke 2. The first appearance of sparganoo occurs in verse 7 and the second is in verse 12. The Greek word sparganoo means “to wrap a child in swaddling clothes (long strips of cloth)” or “to clothe in strips of cloth, to wrap up in strips of cloth, to wrap in cloths.”[1,2,3]

The Greek word sparganoo is never translated as “burial clothes” and never refers to a burial cloth in the New Testament. In the Koine Greek there were numerous words that refer to being clothed. Consequently, it is reasonable to discover that different Greek words described Jesus’ burial process. In Matthew 27:59 we are told that Jesus was wrapped in a clean linen cloth. The Greek verb for “wrapped” is entylisso which was used to describe wrapping up something such as a cadaver.[4] The Greek word that is translated as “linen cloths” in the verse is sindon. It means “linen cloth of good quality.”[5] The same two Greek words, entylisso and sindon, are used in Luke 23:53 to describe the burial process for Jesus. Then in Mark 15:46 we are told that Jesus was “wrapped in the linen cloth.” The Greek verb for “wrapped” is enieleo which means “to wrap in.”[6] The Greek word for cloth is once again sindon. In John 19:40 we are told that Jesus was “bound in linen wrappings.” The Greek word for “bound” is deo and the word for “linen wrappings” is othonion. Deo means “to bind”[7] and othonion refers to a piece of fine cloth.[8] All of this reveals that sparganoo was not used to describe Jesus being wrapped in His burial cloths.

Sparganoo also appears in the Septuagint version of the Old Testament in Ezekiel 16:4. Here is the verse,

As for your birth, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water for cleansing; you were not rubbed with salt or even wrapped in cloths. Ezekiel 16:4 (NASB)
In this verse sparganoo is translated as “wrapped in cloths.” It is clear from the verse that sparganoo refers to baby clothes and not burial clothes. In Ezekiel 16:2 we discover that the citizens of Jerusalem are the focus of this message and God refers to the time of their birth (Ezekiel 16:1-4).

Therefore, the Greek word sparganoo refers to clothes that a baby would wear. The word sparganoo means “long strips of cloth for infant care” or “wrap in baby clothes.” It was a word that appeared in ancient medical writings.

Significance of Sparganoo

Luke 2:12 tells us that when the angels appeared to the shepherds at night, the sign identifying the infant Jesus as the Messiah was that He would be wrapped in baby clothes – sparganoo. Historical records reveal what was significant about these clothes. It was common in ancient times to not put what we would call diapers on the baby. Often very young children would be allowed to walk about without under garments..[10, 11] Most often it was the more affluent who had the resources to afford undergarments for their children. Since Mary and Joseph were on travel journeying the town of Joseph’s ancestors at the time of Jesus’ birth, it is possible that people of means gave Mary some clothes for Jesus. What is really significant is that Jesus was also in a manger – an animal feeding trough. The baby Jesus lying in an animal trough and ironically wrapped in clothes fitting for the wealthy would be an incredible sign to the shepherds.

Conclusion:​

Jesus was wrapped in cloths as a sign that He was special and that He was the King of kings. The significance of his royalty should never be diminished (Rev. 19:16)
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Thus a lot of buried intellect is sacred in secure in the fabric of the myth! All this because those enamoured with totalism regarding desires have put intellect down on the page ... mostly unconsciously ...

One has to squeeze the literal text a bit to get the Jews out as Jude& ... lighter seize? Maybe literal Ized ...liter aZ ae? No more to it and thus nothing erupts ... from nowhere ... without the abstract ... deduction? N-1 ... leading to below board conclusion of Planck ... a plunge into the great unknown as mentioned in passing the biblical efforts ... noted particularly in Acts! So act properly ...


Science in observation of the blinded ... appears as nonsense from what they hear ... some grasp may be slipped in the Greek version of 7 de gaunt a slim chance ...
 
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unsafe

Well-Known Member
So maybe as we approach Dec 25 which is to reflect Spiritually on the Birth of Jesus who was wrapped in swaddling cloth and laid in a animal feeding trough to show us he was without spot or blemish and through Him we would get our Spiritual nutrients that would sustain us through this life and eternally ----

The fun Jolly Old Man who comes down our chimney to bring gifts to all the children is is a lie and we tell our children that if they lie their punishment will be worse than if the tell the truth ---and then we lie to our children about this Jolly Man dressed in a red suit will come and bring lots of goodies and toys to all good little children ------ are parents being hypocritical here ----

Some will say well that is a little good lie as it brings joy and happiness to the children ----but is it ?????----There is a commandment Not to lie ------there is no good lie or bad lie ----a lie is a lie in God's eyes -----and also parents will use the being good or Santa won't bring you any presents as a control behaviour tool which in my view is wrong ------we as parents paint This Santa as A Good Jolly man and then Paint him as in a bad light saying he will leave you nothing but a lump of coal if you misbehave -----instilling fear -- confusion and doubt in our children ---

So does this morally reflect the way of God or the way ----away from God ?-----

So
We make Santa to be like God -----Which is how Lucifer became Satan wanting to be like God -----

Exodus 20:3 NIV​

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=NIV
Santa is omnipresent ------
Santa lives in the North
Santa can deliver blessings
Santa can move quickly from one place to another
Santa punishes bad behaviour
Santa keeps a list of all girls and boys
Santa has unseen helpers
Santa can do the impossible
Santa is invisible ----

I am as guilty as all as i brought up my son believing in this mystical man ---and when he got of age and understood that there was no Santa ---he was crushed for a time ----I felt bad for him as his bubble had been burst -----he said Christmas was not as exciting for him after that --

So should Christmas be presented in a different way to our children so that the fun and excitement is still present without the lie -----that is the real hard Question ?-------
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Could Santa not really be a metaphor for God? As you say, he seems to have a suspicious number of similar characteristics. I mean God goes by more than one name (Yahweh, Elohim, etc.). So why not "Santa Claus"?
:santa:
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Someone adept at satyr and metaphor said: "what's in a word?"

The echo returned with; "everything!"

Some say God is everything and others deny it and attempt to reduce it to as few words as possible in a very tight and secretive tome!

Thus many words escape me ... the echo sometimes called ego is said to be guilty of solipsism ... thus that was preserved in de void space ... kind 've out there an indeterminate.

Can you imagine the determinate getting a grasp on indeterminate idealism? They may be tricked into believing they know something impossible from a mortal perspective ... as that chap said about folk with infinite asperations when contained by the finite domain ... sadistic?

Thus the howl of a sad song from way out there ...
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
If we are told to know thyself ... should we know our mortal nature? Thus it goes to indicate what lies there ... flat out as everything goes round ...

Some say the winds of chance or quantum Eire ... the odds of finding that red a' rye 'd lass that dwells over the horizon ... a fringe?

Just before the dark night falls to overcome ... Val jean to those that figure we should work all the time ... obliteration of sentient matter ...

Beyond that it gets darker and more mystical ... as the shroud gets a grip on Yah ... (over/ova)! Yolk all ...
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
I see it as making Santa like God ----Santa is a made up man he is NOT GOD and we should not be comparing Santa even to God in my view -----we humans have given him these qualities to make Santa appear to be Like God ------

some human dreamed them up to be LIKE GOD ---and that I see as Satan's work ---just my view on that -----

and the different names of God have meanings ----Santa has nothing to do with the Spiritual realm ----Santa is Human only ------in my belief

Santa Comes and goes ----God is always present
Santa can't take away your sins -----Only God can
Santa can't heal you spiritually and physically ----only God can
Santa only comes out at night in secret ----God reveals all darkness and brings to light all secrets ------
Santa has to travel by sleigh and reindeer ----God travels by His Spirit no sleigh or animals needed ------


So if we want to see the name Santa as another name for God ---I believe it would be through deceit not truth ---again my view

Santa is called different names in different countries all human given -----interesting read ---just posted a few --read all here


Dedt Moroz, Russia
According to legend, a woman had two stepdaughters – one wicked, the other nice. One day, she threw the kind girl out into the cold. But soon, Dedt Moroz, or Father Ice, appeared on his sleigh. He was so impressed with the girl’s kindness that he gave her diamonds. When the stepmother heard of this, she threw the other girl out, too. But Dedt Moroz didn’t like her and quickly turned her into ice. Like Santa, Dedt Moroz brings presents to children. Unlike Santa, he brings them to New Year’s parties.

Mikulás, Hungary
If you’re bad in Hungary, you might find only a wooden spoon waiting for you on Christmas morning. The country’s version of Saint Nicholas is known as Mikulás. Children leave a boot on their windowsill in the hope that Mikulás will fill it with treats. “Good” children receive fruits, candies and toys. But “bad” kids can expect nothing more than a spoon or a willow-switch left by a mischievous elf.


Papai Noel, Brazil
Because Brazil is on the other side of the equator, Christmas comes in the middle of summer. That’s why Santa – Papai Noel – shows up from his home in Greenland wearing an outfit made of silk. Before going to bed on Christmas Eve, children set out their shoes. And in the morning, they find them filled with small gifts. They also look for presents hidden around the house.


Hoteiosho, Japan
Like Santa, he’s an old man who carries a big sack over his back. But, unlike Santa, he’s got eyes in the back of his head and he uses them to know when children are naughty or nice.
 

paradox3

Well-Known Member
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@unsafe
I don't think @Mendalla meant that Santa Claus IS God. He talked about many names for God which might explain some of the confusion..

Mendalla suggested that Santa Claus might be a metaphor for God. I think this idea has some merit. . . . quite a bit actually. But we are talking about a metaphor, not a reality.
 
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