The UMC Schism Unfolds

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BetteTheRed said:
I assume this is because the bulk of the "regular Methodists" merged into the United Church, yes?
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Likely. I know Grandad's background was Methodist pre-union and he became a minister in the United Church not long after union. He was the Welsh branch of the family and there's even a circuit rider not too many generations back.
 
A fixed method is not that great consideration ... given the changes imposed by the great unknown ... a fluctuating divide ...

Expect there might be strange illumination and glow hidden in fixed text! With any change the fixed Krist all may crack allowing for the flaw in the dia monds R's ... thus the satyr crossing the dark arias ...
 
Waterfall said:
The ones who left are for inclusiveness or against LGBTQ inclusiveness?
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Against, I believe, but the article is not clear.

And I corrected my post. Misread things the first time. The entire conference did not leave, but 261/700 congregations did so more than a third of the conference. Still nasty, but less so. Apparently as of August, 6000 of 30000 congregations had voted to disaffliate, so about 20% at that time.
 
Waterfall said:
The ones who left are for inclusiveness or against LGBTQ inclusiveness?
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Against. They are upholding traditional Methodist discipline which they feel their leadership is ignoring.

The departures are larger in number than the conservative faction estimated originally.
 
Sometimes I wonder if something similar could happen to us along traditional/ progressive lines. I don't foresee LGTBQ issues being the focus. But our creeds & "essential agreement" for clergy are possibilities.
 
I don't recall the UCCan melting down this badly after 1988 (and again after same sex marriage came in). Some congregations, members, and ministers left but no kind of wholesale exodus like the Methodists are seeing.

Footnote: Holy wow, it's been 20 years since same sex marriage started to become legal in Canada. The Ontario court decision that started the ball rolling was June 2003 and the new federal Civil Marriage Act came in July 2005.
 
paradox3 said:
Sometimes I wonder if something similar could happen to us along traditional/ progressive lines. I don't foresee LGTBQ issues being the focus. But our creeds & "essential agreement" for clergy are possibilities.
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Yeah, same sex marriage and othe LGBTQ rights are pretty entrenched in the UCCan and in Canada in general, but a theological/creedal split seems possible. I am rather amazed that the diversity of viewpoints in the UCCan hasn't led to more rancour but since the (you know who) affair came to an end, things have seemed quieter, or at least the media has stopped paying attention.
 
Mendalla said:
I don't recall the UCCan melting down this badly after 1988 (and again after same sex marriage came in). Some congregations, members, and ministers left but no kind of wholesale exodus like the Methodists are seeing.
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Our denomination does not allow departing congregations to retain their property and assets.

In an attempt to facilitate an amicable split, the United Methodist Church created a window during which congregations could leave with most of their assets. There has been some squabbling over pension obligations apparently.

But I respect them for trying to be gracious.

Most of the departing congregations have joined the new Global Methodist Church. But some have joined other denominations or gone independent.
 
Most congregations are more focused on surviving and local mission than theological concerns with the national church. We also do not have bishops and conference control of local congregations.
 
In our case, many of our members seem to view the national church as a distant bureaucracy. I really just started to learn about it in the days of the original WC. I am much less current with its happenings these days.
 
Mendalla said:
I am rather amazed that the diversity of viewpoints in the UCCan hasn't led to more rancour but since the (you know who) affair came to an end, things have seemed quieter, or at least the media has stopped paying attention.
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Definitely quieter which is possibly a result of the terms of the settlement with GV. We will never know.

Beyond her local congregation, it's hard to predict if she will have any lasting impact on the denomination.

I see her as a product of her times more than a trailblazer.
 
paradox3 said:
Our denomination does not allow departing congregations to retain their property and assets.
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Good point. I had forgotten that was an issue for leaving.
jimkenney12 said:
Most congregations are more focused on surviving and local mission than theological concerns with the national church. We also do not have bishops and conference control of local congregations.
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And this, too. The decentralized nature has only increased, I think, with the move away from Presbyteries and Conferences to more nebulous, at least in terms of their authority, Regions.
paradox3 said:
In our case, many of our members seem to view the national church as a distant bureaucracy.
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Even the old local bodies like Presbytery rarely got talked about much, at least in my experience. We heard about Hamilton Conference from time to time, usually in connection to some Conference event, not governance. Maybe at the board level but I never really got there. That was Dad's gig.

The first time I really noticed the existence of Presbytery beyond hearing the name was when I was on a search committee. And then the Presbytery rep was also one of my profs at Waterloo (I took a few course at St. Paul's) and a former associate of Grandad's when Grandad was involved with church colleges. So hardly a threatening authority (he was a nice guy, sadly passed away many years ago).
 
paradox3 said:
Definitely quieter which is possibly a result of the terms of the settlement with GV. We will never know.

Beyond her local congregation, it's hard to predict if she will have any lasting impact on the denomination.

I see her as a product of her times more than a trailblazer.
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Yeah, she was kind of a one-off in the end. Caused a lot of sturm und drang but little else. Interestingly, Ready to Harvest talked about her a lot in his profile of the United Church (think it's posted in the UCCan forum) but that was also done closer to the proceedings when she was more in the news.
 
Is SHE a bridled thing or somewhat free to roam as debrided and bifurcated? This may parallel a schism to support diversity ... SHE Sam, or Chi zM?
 
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