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The Stories of Creation

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Redbaron

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Here is Professor James McGrath, with a few thoughts on the creation stories in Genesis, and how some would try to read them.

 

Luce NDs

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Six is one short of the Holy # 7 ... and a stroke of luck as something of the quantum domain ... that chance dimension ...
 

unsafe

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I say ------So here you have the article saying this ------this statement below is from the article posted in OP

Take for example the dilemma a literalist would face trying to reconcile Genesis 1:2-3 with 1 John 1:6. In one text, God is light, while in the other, God creates light.


I say ---this is a perfect example of people who just look at the Scripture as logos ---the written word ------and have no understanding of what certain words in the scripture actually means and they can't get the message because they cannot discern it ---as this scripture indicates --- ---

Posting ------Read all in context ---I am just posting this part -----

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (ERV)​

God’s Wisdom​

We use the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.
14 People who do not have God’s Spirit do not accept the things that come from his Spirit. They think these things are foolish. They cannot understand them, because they can only be understood with the Spirit’s help.


I say ---so here we go ----- Genesis 1:2-3 with 1 John 1:6. In one text, God is light, while in the other, God creates light.

So we see the word light here 2 times ----how does the Word use these 2 words that is the Question ---------------So Lets See

I say ------- here God creates light -----

Genises1 NIV
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light

Strong's Concordance
or: a light,
dawn , daylight* , early morning , sun , sunlight , sunshine .

light as diffused in nature, light of day Genesis 1:3



Next scripture
I say ----here we go with 1 John !:5 -----the article says verse 6 ---but it is 5 not 6

God is light -----

1 John 1:5 (NIV)

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Strong's Concordance
phós: light

Usage: a source of light, radiance.

the manifestation of God's self-existent life; divine illumination to reveal and impart life, through Christ.
The extremely delicate, subtile, pure, brilliant quality of light has led to the use of φῶς as an appellation of God, i. e. as by nature incorporeal, spotless, holy 1 John 1:5

I say ---so you see the 2 words light ----mean 2 different things and are not the same in scripture ------
 

BetteTheRed

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I say ------So here you have the article saying this ------this statement below is from the article posted in OP

Take for example the dilemma a literalist would face trying to reconcile Genesis 1:2-3 with 1 John 1:6. In one text, God is light, while in the other, God creates light.


I say ---this is a perfect example of people who just look at the Scripture as logos ---the written word ------and have no understanding of what certain words in the scripture actually means and they can't get the message because they cannot discern it ---as this scripture indicates --- ---

Posting ------Read all in context ---I am just posting this part -----

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (ERV)​

God’s Wisdom​

We use the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.
14 People who do not have God’s Spirit do not accept the things that come from his Spirit. They think these things are foolish. They cannot understand them, because they can only be understood with the Spirit’s help.


I say ---so here we go ----- Genesis 1:2-3 with 1 John 1:6. In one text, God is light, while in the other, God creates light.

So we see the word light here 2 times ----how does the Word use these 2 words that is the Question ---------------So Lets See

I say ------- here God creates light -----

Genises1 NIV
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light

Strong's Concordance
or: a light,
dawn , daylight* , early morning , sun , sunlight , sunshine .

light as diffused in nature, light of day Genesis 1:3



Next scripture
I say ----here we go with 1 John !:5 -----the article says verse 6 ---but it is 5 not 6

God is light -----

1 John 1:5 (NIV)

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Strong's Concordance
phós: light

Usage: a source of light, radiance.

the manifestation of God's self-existent life; divine illumination to reveal and impart life, through Christ.
The extremely delicate, subtile, pure, brilliant quality of light has led to the use of φῶς as an appellation of God, i. e. as by nature incorporeal, spotless, holy 1 John 1:5

I say ---so you see the 2 words light ----mean 2 different things and are not the same in scripture ------

Bit disingenuous of you. In that, in the very next line, he says "Of course, the quick reply will be that 1 John 1:6 is clearly using metaphorical language [which is exactly what you did]. But what makes this obvious? Presumably the same common sense that leads most people to consider that a story that includes a talking snake is a myth or fable!"

So, unsafe, talking snake in garden of Eden? Is that literally true? Or is the snake a metaphor for Satan, and now you're walking down exactly the same road as all the rest of us heathens, "interpreting" what 'plain text' means.

You don't believe in the 'plain text' any more than I do. What you believe in is a very specific set of interpretations, all of them, 'coincidentally' from https://www.gotquestions.org.
 

Redbaron

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@unsafe, the main point is that there are 2 different accounts of creation in Genesis, that cannot both be literally true, To wit:

The first story says that the world was a watery chaos; the second that it was dry ground, watered by underwater springs.

The first story has all things created first, then humans at the end of creation, as its crown, so to speak. In the second, Adam is created first, THEN animals, then Eve.

In the first story, God simply speaks, and things happen. In the second story, God is more like a potter, forming things by hand, taking a rib and fashioning Eve.

In the first story, it is God who is present; in the second story, it is the LORD (YHWH, the Tetragrammaton, who is present.

They are 2 different stories. They present two different accounts of creation. They are not compatible.

How do you, as a proclaimed literalist, explain these striking differences? Telling us all we are unspiritual and don't understand does not address the issues. Mayhap you, as the enlightened one among us, can stop criticizing us for a few moments, and explain how you understand these 2 different stories. Do you think you can do it?
 

Redbaron

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I say ---so you see the 2 words light ----mean 2 different things and are not the same in scripture ------
Since Genesis was written in HEBREW, and 1 John in GREEK, two completely different languages, OF COURSE THE WORDS ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT.
But Professor McGrath's point still holds true.
 

unsafe

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The Genesis stories in the garden are not contradicting themselves --there Redbaron -----many use them to say the Bible contradicts itself ---which is saying God is confused ----which is what this person wants God to be --a very confused God so this person can use and abuse the Bible to suit his or her own agenda ------yada --yada --yada ----all empty talk

People want there to be contradictions in God's word -----People don't like many things God says in the Bible so they need to create contradictions and have their cake and eat it to -----I can sin as much as I want and I will still get into heaven -----because the Bible contradicts itself so it is not the truth ---even though it says it is ------

read all for yourselves ---it explains the process between Genesis 1and 2 -----I know you won't read it cause you want the article to be true in the OP ----I am just posting this bit ----

In Genesis chapter 2 the order of creation seems to be different to that in chapter 1 with the animals being created (2:19) after Adam (2:7). Doesn’t the Bible contradict itself here?


Genesis chapters 1 and 2 are not therefore separate contradictory accounts of creation. Chapter 1 is the ‘big picture’ and Chapter 2 is a more detailed account of the creation of Adam and Eve and day six of creation

These guys say it best for me -----an 8 min video ----for those who want the real Truth

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbEb5Sy1daQdFoIfgHKSGaQ
Straight Truth Podcast
9.92K subscribers

Are there contradictions in the Bible? With so many human authors, is it possible there could be errors in Scripture? Or is the Bible truly inerrant? In this episode of the Straight Truth Podcast, Dr. Richard Caldwell and special guest Dr. Nicolas Ellen provide examples of passages in the Bible that are often pointed out as “contradictory.” Using these examples, they show us the importance of reading Scripture in its proper context, having the right heart attitude and a proper theological framework. But why does it matter whether or not we believe in the consistency of Scripture? Does our view of the Bible’s inerrancy affect the way we read it? These questions and more are addressed in this episode of the Straight Truth Podcast, as Dr. Richard Caldwell and Dr. Nicolas Ellen take us to God’s Word.

 

unsafe

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Redbaron -----you said ----But Professor McGrath's point still holds true.

LOL ---No it doesn't ---but you can think it does -----that is your privilege to believe that ------Satan is so at work ---and duped many ----
 

unsafe

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BetteTheRed ----you said ----1 John 1:6 is clearly using metaphorical language

This scripture doesn't have God is light in it ----the person has quoted the wrong verse for what he said ----it is in verse 5 not 6 -----as I pointed out above -----

BetteTheRed ----you said -----So, unsafe, talking snake in garden of Eden? Is that literally true? Or is the snake a metaphor for Satan, and now you're walking down exactly the same road as all the rest of us heathens, "interpreting" what 'plain text' means.

I say ---Oh my Goodness BetteTheRed ---your really catching on to Scripture --that is so great ---good for you ------But here is the thing if you look up what snake means in the Hebrew ----you get a better picture of how Satan works ------

Strong's Concordance
nachash: a serpent
crafty tempter Genesis 3:1,2,4,13,14.

I say ---so we see it is describing what Satan is like ------and that is what he does to make people believe the Bible has contradictions ----he slithers craftily in our thinking and temps us to think the Bible Contradicts itself so we won't believe it ----so he can hang on to our soul ---and that is the truth --
 

Redbaron

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You have not come anywhere close to addressing the thread topic. Creation.com is incorrect. The second story IS NOT COMPATIBLE with the first. The second story DOES NOT simply add details to the first; it is a separate story. Period. Unless God did creation twice, both stories cannot be literally true. Period.

The podcast does not address the thread topic. It, and you, are dodging reality. Honest, careful reading of the first few chapters of Genesis reveals the difference between the stories, a few of which are outlined for your consideration in Post # 5. All the rationalizations in the world are not going to make those incompatibilities disappear, no matter how many times you repeat them, or how many decibels you use.


And McGrath's point still holds.
 

GeoFee

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Satan and Devil, in the Hebrew way of thinking, represent the principles of accusation and division. They are not considered as metaphysical beings.

That said, I agree with the notion that there are two accounts of creation.
 

unsafe

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Redbaron ---you said ----And McGrath's point still holds.

I say again ----No It Doesn't ---but you can think it does ------:jackolantern:
 

Luce NDs

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If God is pure Love ... should we not expect a certain level of chaos and confusion in God from the IMP*act?
On the bruising collision ... some thoughts are lost!
 

unsafe

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Here you go Redbaron ----

! min 30 second video --On your Genesis thinking -----of confusion --this says the same a the article I posted above ----

Are Genesis 1 & 2 Contradictory Accounts?​


 

Redbaron

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If his aim is to provide "credible" answers to questions, he has failed miserable. See post # 10 again.
As I said, your repeating of the rationalizations over and over, louder and louder, does NOT address the inconsistencies. Why is one creation wet and the other dry? Why does the Creator have 2 different names? Why doe the Creator go from verbally calling things to come into being to creating them from the dust like a potter? (and, for that matter, in the second story, where does the dust of the earth come from? Has it always been there? The second story doesn't say anything about where the dust comes from in the first place.)

The simplistic videos you present do not come anywhere close to addressing the issues rained in this thread. You citations from you favoured websites do not address the issues. Besides, I don't really want to hear what your vids and websites think. What do YOU think?
 

Luce NDs

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What we don;t know for sure is awesome ... yet the determined do not accept anything they don not wish to accept that they don't know as incarnate (appearing as isn't)! Some digging expected Babau!
 

Waterfall

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Isn't there a 3rd creation story referenced in the Books of Isaiah, Job and Psalms where the world is created from a battle between God and a dragon(sea monster) named Rahab?
 
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unsafe

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Rebaron --you said ----he has failed miserable.

I say ----yada ---yada ----yada ----all empty talk there -----you wish he failed miserably ---
 

BetteTheRed

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Your video does not address the contradictions, unsafe, because it's not the difference between the big picture and the details. The only thing that explains the contradictions is that we have an early merger of at least two different Creation stories, and the humans doing the merging were unconcerned about the resultant contradictions. That "non-chronological" comment is totally riotous. It's like writing a story about a human that goes, "He was a famous scientist, he got very drunk as a teenager, he died in his 70s of AIDS, he crawled at age 15 months, he married a man late in life, his first food was rice cereal."
 
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