The end of the church as we know it

[jimkenney12]

The Question Box column in the issue of Broadview magazine that arrived in our mailbox today had a question about the viability of the church. Christopher White's response was the deficit in 2024/25 of $6 million does mark the end of the church, as we have known it. His suggestion is a return to Presbyteries and a General Council geared to supporting Presbyteries.

What should General Council keep doing?

 

[Luce NDs]

The Question Box column in the issue of Broadview magazine that arrived in our mailbox today had a question about the viability of the church. Christopher White's response was the deficit in 2024/25 of $6 million does mark the end of the church, as we have known it. His suggestion is a return to Presbyteries and a General Council geared to supporting Presbyteries.

What should General Council keep doing?

Nothing?

 

[paradox3]

The Question Box column in the issue of Broadview magazine that arrived in our mailbox today had a question about the viability of the church. Christopher White's response was the deficit in 2024/25 of $6 million does mark the end of the church, as we have known it. His suggestion is a return to Presbyteries and a General Council geared to supporting Presbyteries.

What should General Council keep doing?

Is Christopher advocating that we get rid of the Regions then?

 

[Luce NDs]

If they keep changing things without sense of order will they accomplish the ultimate purpose?

In the disorder will order form beyond our consciousness? After all we weren't supposed to grasp much as initiates ... thus we grabbed for nothing ... the entire thing was stripped clean, especially of justice, mercy and humility as pride collected more power ... the shadow is caste --- Plato!

Imagine everything burning up ... ohs hite ... must be the physical portion generating essences ... and here we are again in the cooker!

 

[jimkenney12]

Either getting rid of them or rebranding them as presbyteries. The Presbyterian church seems to function with Presbyteries and General Synod. The structure needs to fit resources and mission or purpose.

I am not sure what I want the national body to keep doing.

 

[Mendalla]

I think you need the simplest structure that suits your vision for how the church should function. For the UCCan, that's probably something like the Presbyterian model.

The Canadian Unitarian Council has regions but that's mostly about making sure services are provided as locally as possible. They are not governing bodies, nor is the CUC itself. Governance is congregational and the CUC is more about coordinating around things like shared vision and providing services and support. The congregations govern the CUC, not the other way around. But that model is likely not going to work in a church that envisions national and regional bodies as having a governance function.

 

[Luce NDs]

I know this is sick humour but ...

I relate to a number of ministry people across the spectrum and get information across the board (Planck?). The number of primary congregations in Fredericton that are slowly slipping away, contrary to belief and expectations is significant. Ten if these folk have been preached to for years on the nature of the stoic and not changing regardless of the imposed conditions ... what is the consequence? Congregations do not fare well when the entire integral is upset by God knows what! One has to be a bit beyond the average to get this sentient!

Does that fit paranormal function?

Thus the insecure journey contrary to what we are told ... Lord are we ever conditioned to be hard to learn and teach ... leading to a stonewalled description ...

Be prepared for a big wave that may be illuminating ... Blanching? Perhaps a fabric of a different slate ... a sad story of mortals following emotional context alone ... intellect is minor or lessor like that ancient alchemical symbol for Gold ... a hard, dense proton like ʘ ... laced along on another thread ... and said to be symbolic of consciousness! Picture a core with a sensitive fringe ... arms length relation?

Is all communal activity dissociating? ... so the populace may come and go in waves ... Browning clusters ... let us toast!

 

[jimkenney12]

I think you need the simplest structure that suits your vision for how the church should function. For the UCCan, that's probably something like the Presbyterian model.

The Canadian Unitarian Council has regions but that's mostly about making sure services are provided as locally as possible. They are not governing bodies, nor is the CUC itself. Governance is congregational and the CUC is more about coordinating around things like shared vision and providing services and support. The congregations govern the CUC, not the other way around. But that model is likely not going to work in a church that envisions national and regional bodies as having a governance function.

True. In a way we have encouraged congregations to not be responsible for themselves. Tough challenges include the process for determining eligibility and status for ministry, the United Church Foundation, and management of the pension fund. By being relatively cheap on financial support for the church structure but expecting lots, we have developed an unsupportable structure.

 

[Luce NDs]

True. In a way we have encouraged congregations to not be responsible for themselves. Tough challenges include the process for determining eligibility and status for ministry, the United Church Foundation, and management of the pension fund. By being relatively cheap on financial support for the church structure but expecting lots, we have developed an unsupportable structure.

Thus the unsupportable is lifted into the light and the administration does not appreciate this being laid out n the rye ...

Are there great administrative salary outputs? Ad ministration seems to strangle all activities ... as the building of commissions are critical in some prevue's ...

Intelligence on the matter of enlightenment is thus suppressed as to build support for parasitic process where some can rule from the golf court/course ... because there might be a hole in one that presents as Φ or previously as IO's ... when the one got into nothing ... after that nothing mattered!

Disorder is not something easily ordered given scattered information of protocol ... yet the great book starts out with knowledge is evil ... and many of the subliterate cannot read any further into'it!

NB: You cannot imagine the times I've been told intelligence, etc. is evil ... and in the stronger hand it will be abused ... I grew up among this deficienncy and you cannot get them over it ... thus going down is the option ... like the Semite Temple! Life is like that with waves of ups and downs ... shaky as chimera ... plasma-like quiver!

Proliferation of misunderstanding ... is that Rhode to naivete and green sky? Considering what rises in vegetable state ... powerful matter that just lies there calm posting? Thus rites ... regarding passages ...

 

[Mendalla]

Tough challenges include the process for determining eligibility and status for ministry

The Canadian UUs took the easy way out on that one: When they split with the American UUA (CUC used to be the Canadian branch of UUA), they negotiated an agreement to keep using UUA's ministerial credentialing and settlement process. That said, because UUs are congregational, a congregation can technically ordain anyone they want as a minister, they just won't receive support from UUA/CUC if they go outside the UUA process. Even the US congregation that ended up with a woman trained as a rabbi as minister (vs. someone trained at a UU or approved Christian school) worked with UUA to keep it within the proper process.

 

[Luce NDs]

Process engineering follows a similar protocol that if not well understood, by recollecting much exterior intelligence, can result in explosive instances followed by implosion ... furthering the interests of Black Hole Hypothetic as it goes down ... hopefully that settles well to a point as 3 elements in hydrogen forming deuterium (great for detecting tiny particles)! These are generally unseen ... below the visible horizon as an expression ...

May bend the straight liners right out of shape ... the atomist view of free particles ... qu*arks and qu*irks ... in chance space that we all fall into as we disintegrate ... ultimate dissociation? More 've the dark arts ... shadows to avoid as inked? Illiteracy proliferating ... because of dislike of alien information, etc. Expect extensive composition NG (something to do with gamma)! Raes Ide ... the Shadow streaks off ... trailing dark matter ... connections invisible from this side of the abstract medium ... impenetrable veil ... Val carries ...

 

[KayTheCurler]

It all seems very complicated to me, and to many long time members of congregations! Some people don't know who can vote on issues pertaining to their own congregation even, let alone how things 'pass up and down the ladder' so to speak.

 

[Luce NDs]

It all seems very complicated to me, and to many long time members of congregations! Some people don't know who can vote on issues pertaining to their own congregation even, let alone how things 'pass up and down the ladder' so to speak.

Personified "unknowing" is characterized! Thus we forget or thoughtfulness is lost cause! Un reasoned ... emotional blast is better?

 

[Luce NDs]

It all seems very complicated to me, and to many long time members of congregations! Some people don't know who can vote on issues pertaining to their own congregation even, let alone how things 'pass up and down the ladder' so to speak.

Thus underwritten ... resolution is a paradigm that is beyond us ... in a hump!

 

[jimkenney12]

I wonder if our current General Council Executive is willing to provide the members of the church with a summary of what each level of the church does now with readiness to engage in a national discussion about what might come next in terms of restructuring.

 

[Mendalla]

I wonder if our current General Council Executive is willing to provide the members of the church with a summary of what each level of the church does now with readiness to engage in a national discussion about what might come next in terms of restructuring.

That would be a logical step to take, IMHO. I think churches need to be treating their members more like shareholders with a vital stake in the organization's success than as customers consuming the organization's "product", as seems to happen at times. Congregationalism has an advantage in this regard, I think, because then the members really are "shareholders" and everything has a local focus.