Socialism and the Bible ------A Cultural Prophecy | Dr. David Jeremiah

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unsafe

Well-Known Member
Very interesting video ---
Jeremiah talks about Karl Marx who is the father of socialism ---and how he hated God and the Church --- and how loyalty to the church had to be replaced by the state ---Marxism is divisive ---it is not compatible with free expression of Religion ----Jeremiah says Marxism is deadly -----then he goes on to says how this new path in our political nation is more than just a trend ---it is a shift into socialism ---then he gives examples ---and then he gives what the Bible says and gives the scripture to back it up ----
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Dr. David Jeremiah examines how socialist policies invading the United States intersect with biblical prophecy and what God's people can do about them

 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
He had no use for the low man on the pole of measure ... isn't that the devil?

Jesus said we should look after everybody ... yet there are eliminators!
 

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
Pronouns
He/Him/His
Chavez tried to set himself up as ruler for life? Isn't that exactly what Trump tried to do?
 

revjohn

Well-Known Member
I stopped watching the tape at the 22nd-second mark for two reasons.

The first was that in his list of ideologies "on a day like ours" includes only one ideology. Talk about stacking the deck. I get that he has been asked to specifically address socialism (or that he has chosen to specifically address socialism) to limit the list of dangerous ideologies to the singular socialism is to fail to address the whole of the issue. It represents at most, half-truth.

The second was that he admits this is his opinion of the last days. I don't trust much popular "last days" prediction and I find any wing of the Christian Church that invests energy and time in identifying "last days" events woefully ignorant of the day that is right in front of them and needs to be addressed.

Apart from that Reverend Jeremiah holds an honorary doctorate and as such doesn't deserve to be addressed as Dr. Honourary degrees are an honour bestowed upon individuals that have nothing to do with the assessment of their work. To obtain a doctorate in any field of study one must submit to a great deal of scrutiny from individuals who have also proven themselves in that field. An honorary doctorate is awarded by an institution to advance the standing of the institution not the individual so honoured.

Addressing himself as Dr or allowing others to introduce him as Dr when he has not proven himself through the regular academic means is fraudulent for a start and hubris for substance.

That doesn't make everything he says wrong.

It does mean that I'm not investing time and energy into listening to a man share his opinions if he is under the false impression that he has earned the right to be addressed as a doctor. The honorary degree was also in divinity which doesn't mean he has the authority to teach about socialism. This is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority which fails on two points. It fails in that Rev. Jeremiah is not a recognized authority on political ideology. It fails in that the Rev. Jeremiah is not even a recognized authority in the area of Divinity. He is simply a popular preacher, not an especially learned one.

I might go back to watch the 29 minutes 38 seconds later. I don't suspect that there will be much profit to doing so.

Socialism is as biblical as is democracy and capitalism. In fact, if one wants to strike at the foundations of socialism, "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" finds more support in the Sermon on the Mount than does capitalism and democracy combined. It is also important to note that inasmuch as capitalism was tied to the protestant work ethic that hoarding wealth was not a Reformer's goal. Indeed Calvin formed one of the earliest welfare states in Geneva which did not win him a lot of favours among the political leaders of the day.

Socialism fails the same way democracy fails to be truly representative of the Kingdom of God in that both ultimately require the state to become coercive and use their power to enforce their way of thinking.

Socialism fails the same way Capitalism fails because both rely on the state to legislate loving our neighbour.

Any argument for Democracy and Capitalism over Socialism is not an argument from scripture, it is an abuse of scripture.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Here's a wholly comprehension ... that is if it can be deeply gripped by thumb and index:

If capitalism is balanced with socialism ... does that form an essence of demi urge as a construct of word(s)?

There is a large shadow group that doesn't understand the grasp of something that is an oscillating wisp in the north woods of the brain ... topside?

That's midnight Son a place your soul should carry some levity as we are afloat in the gump that may be the fertilization of the new earth as a cesspool ... Trump's dream to turn everything to manure? The fomentation continues and he didn't know the pool was rising against his stance ... this immersed in it he is ... dippy?

The naivete of man can only be approached with a story, parable or metaphor that oscillates ... thus waves on the pool ... wrinkles in calm posture is wrecked?

Imagine word(s) and story created from alien symbols being a base of everything that is god ... but we have a long way to go to construct a better intelligence ... could that be because of the pseudonym of naivete being ignorance ... a stage to get through? What a prognosis ... as delayed procrastination ... leading to an abyss ... which is a hole expressed in Celtic as Don/Ron and other absences ... and th Saul comes up in the morning and Olay ... it is bathed with de luminous! Thus the exuberance about the lass in the loch ... still we fish for answers given what we really know is thin ...

However if you can convince folks to believe in thin observations ... will they be supra? That seems excessive ... like hubris! Fresher on the waters ... navel com.

May mean something else like belly up to the breeze ... gull in the baiting? Then there's the one about the al*bat*ross ...
 
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Waterfall

Well-Known Member
I stopped watching the tape at the 22nd-second mark for two reasons.

The first was that in his list of ideologies "on a day like ours" includes only one ideology. Talk about stacking the deck. I get that he has been asked to specifically address socialism (or that he has chosen to specifically address socialism) to limit the list of dangerous ideologies to the singular socialism is to fail to address the whole of the issue. It represents at most, half-truth.

The second was that he admits this is his opinion of the last days. I don't trust much popular "last days" prediction and I find any wing of the Christian Church that invests energy and time in identifying "last days" events woefully ignorant of the day that is right in front of them and needs to be addressed.

Apart from that Reverend Jeremiah holds an honorary doctorate and as such doesn't deserve to be addressed as Dr. Honourary degrees are an honour bestowed upon individuals that have nothing to do with the assessment of their work. To obtain a doctorate in any field of study one must submit to a great deal of scrutiny from individuals who have also proven themselves in that field. An honorary doctorate is awarded by an institution to advance the standing of the institution not the individual so honoured.

Addressing himself as Dr or allowing others to introduce him as Dr when he has not proven himself through the regular academic means is fraudulent for a start and hubris for substance.

That doesn't make everything he says wrong.

It does mean that I'm not investing time and energy into listening to a man share his opinions if he is under the false impression that he has earned the right to be addressed as a doctor. The honorary degree was also in divinity which doesn't mean he has the authority to teach about socialism. This is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority which fails on two points. It fails in that Rev. Jeremiah is not a recognized authority on political ideology. It fails in that the Rev. Jeremiah is not even a recognized authority in the area of Divinity. He is simply a popular preacher, not an especially learned one.

I might go back to watch the 29 minutes 38 seconds later. I don't suspect that there will be much profit to doing so.

Socialism is as biblical as is democracy and capitalism. In fact, if one wants to strike at the foundations of socialism, "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" finds more support in the Sermon on the Mount than does capitalism and democracy combined. It is also important to note that inasmuch as capitalism was tied to the protestant work ethic that hoarding wealth was not a Reformer's goal. Indeed Calvin formed one of the earliest welfare states in Geneva which did not win him a lot of favours among the political leaders of the day.

Socialism fails the same way democracy fails to be truly representative of the Kingdom of God in that both ultimately require the state to become coercive and use their power to enforce their way of thinking.

Socialism fails the same way Capitalism fails because both rely on the state to legislate loving our neighbour.

Any argument for Democracy and Capitalism over Socialism is not an argument from scripture, it is an abuse of scripture.
With regards to the sermon, I was sort of thinking along the lines you stated above with regards to political systems.....but it got me wondering how would one describe Gods kingdom?
A Monarchy? Or is there a system that puts a leader in charge that thinks of others first and only serves others?
Caters to the lost,the poor, the weak to lift them up?
Lead from the bottom and not the top? Would it work?
What IS Gods kingdom?
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
With regards to the sermon, I was sort of thinking along the lines you stated above with regards to political systems.....but it got me wondering how would one describe Gods kingdom?
A Monarchy? Or is there a system that puts a leader in charge that thinks of others first and only serves others?
Caters to the lost,the poor, the weak to lift them up?
Lead from the bottom and not the top? Would it work?

None the less the radical politicians could create work there for years to come ... if something is resolved what would become of them?
 

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
Pronouns
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I made it slightly beyond the 22 second mark, maybe to about 8 minutes or so before I stopped watching. From that chunk of 'preaching' that I heard, it was apparent that what Rev. Jeremiah was proclaiming was not so much Christianity, but Americanity. I would like to point out that there are huge differences between those two concepts.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
I made it slightly beyond the 22 second mark, maybe to about 8 minutes or so before I stopped watching. From that chunk of 'preaching' that I heard, it was apparent that what Rev. Jeremiah was proclaiming was not so much Christianity, but Americanity. I would like to point out that there are huge differences between those two concepts.

Americanity is opposing orientalism and thus the occult as an occidental bite! The oscillation sense when chewed over adequately ... you may note a feral flavor ... like boorish pork bellying ... ðites up for grabs ... as a word to be digested! Nibelung ... is a wee bit as one can't take too much at once ...

Heavenly disposition that the powers don't take seriously ... and thus they fall for it ... given the house of representatives, etc. a bad label in all nations!

The powerful just change names ... like gods and allahs rest ... alleys? Passage wheys ... sometimes hefty ...
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Pronouns
She/Her/Her
I'd like to know what critics of socialism do with the passages in Acts which specifically define the earliest church as the very model of socialism - where all monies/income/revenue are pooled and then distributed per individual needs (in contemporary example, it might mean that the person in a wheelchair gets more money for transportation, because wheel-chair accessibility is costlier to construct).
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
I'd like to know what critics of socialism do with the passages in Acts which specifically define the earliest church as the very model of socialism - where all monies/income/revenue are pooled and then distributed per individual needs (in contemporary example, it might mean that the person in a wheelchair gets more money for transportation, because wheel-chair accessibility is costlier to construct).


This really screws up the mind of avarice ... perhaps defining the limb of the tree separating us from the non-sapient?

If nothing ... it makes a good myth to hang out like a fruit on an abstract tree ... an applet? Limbo or distracted limbic?

From there emotions seem to be directed irrationally ...
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
So what really is an Honorary Doctorate Degree ------and how is it given ----by this below it is earned by what has been done in the field ---not by any academic means -----

And if you look up what Doctor means in Latin ----to teach
The word doctor derives from the Latin word “docere” meaning "to. teach."

I say ---So I personally think David Jeremiah has every right to use the word Dr in front of his name -----

Honorary Doctorate​


Christian Bible Institute & Seminary welcomes the opportunity to receive recommendations and nominations of persons in the ministry who deserve the special recognition and honor of receiving the Honorary Doctorate of Divinity Degree. However, each applicant must meet the criteria established by the CBIS Board of Regents which will also be based upon their evaluation of information provided about the candidates.

The Honorary Doctorate Degree is conferred upon distinguished Pastors, Evangelists, Ministers, and other Christian Leaders or Public Servants who have made significant contributions in their respective fields or for the extension of God’s Kingdom.
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Honorary Degrees​


IF AN HONORARY DEGREE IS GRANTED, IT WILL BE ON THE FOLLOWING BASIS:

Title: DOCTOR OF DIVINITY (D.D.) {HONORIS CAUSA}

RATIONALE: JUST AS AN EARNED DOCTORATE IS GIVEN TO A PERSON WHO SHOWS PROMISE OF ACCOMPLISHING SOMETHING EXCEPTIONAL FOR THE HUMAN RACE, SO AN HONORARY DOCTORATE IS GIVEN TO A PERSON WHO HAS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED SUCH A WORK. THE HONORARY DOCTORATE IS AN “EARNED” DEGREE, BUT EARNED BY ACTUALLY PRODUCING DOCTORAL LEVEL RESULTS IN THE REAL WORLD.

Criteria: The recipient must have contributed in an exceptional way to the furtherance of the gospel and service of humankind for more than twenty years, and be obviously deserving of such an honor.

The work accomplished must be related to the core principles of Grace Bible Collage, which was founded for the purpose of furthering the gospel and serving people.

I say ------For anybody interested ----you can read about him here ---
 

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
Pronouns
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Fine. If he wants to call himself Doctor, let him do so.

That does not change in the least that in the video you have presented, what he is promulgating is not so much Christianity, but Americanity.

How about a comment on that?
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
This is from Got questions ----funny how it is saying the same thing that Jeremiah is saying in the video -----

you can read all for yourselves -----I just posted this part -----and karl Marx is really mentioned in this article as well ------


Socialism, for all its popularity in some circles, is not a biblical model for society. In opposition to socialism, the Bible promotes the idea of private property and issues commands to respect it: commands such as “You shall not steal” (Deuteronomy 5:19) are meaningless without private property. Unlike what we see in failed experiments in socialism, the Bible honors work and teaches that individuals are responsible to support themselves: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10). The redistribution of wealth foundational to socialism destroys accountability and the biblical work ethic. Jesus’ parable in Matthew 25:14–30 clearly teaches our responsibility to serve God with our (private) resources.
 

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
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“The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10).

People who live in socialist societies have jobs and careers, just as those in capitalistic situations do. They still work hard.

Socialism, for all its popularity in some circles, is not a biblical model for society.

Capitalism, for all its popularity in some circles, is also NOT a biblical model for society. In fact, capitalism encourages non-accountability for the richest 1%. How many socialists do you know who hide most of their worth in the Cayman Islands, or in Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying fair share of taxes on it, for the public good?
Besides, did you miss revjohn's point about the earliest Christian communities in Acts?

The Believers Share Their Possessions​

32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. 33 With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. 35 They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. 36 There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). 37 He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

Note that NO ONE CLAIMED PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF ANY POSSESSIONS.

The redistribution of wealth foundational to socialism destroys accountability and the biblical work ethic

No it doesn't. And the "Biblical" work ethic is not really "Biblical." It is properly referred to as the "Protestant work ethic."

Maybe the reason that 'Got Questions?' and David Jeremiah agree is likely that this is where Jeremiah did much of his "research."
 

Redbaron

Pirate fan since the dark ages
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Let me just say again that what Jeremiah is talking about is less about Christianity, and more about Americanity.
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
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In fact, capitalism encourages non-accountability for the richest 1%.
And, once again, I will point out that the small business man, who is no more an 1%'er than I am, is as much a capitalist as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos. It is just a matter of scale. We can have capitalism without a "1%" and, in fact, largely did prior to the industrial revolution, when the uber-rich started to become a thing. Cottage industry and small, mom-and-pop shops are still capitalism, just on a smaller scale. Basically, if you make more from selling your services or goods than you spend to produce them, you are a capitalist. And I believe that capitalism is a very valid way to run a society. Absent capitalism, we would not be here having this conversation, because computers, networks, and so on are products of capitalist societies.

Corporatism, the domination of large corporations and their well-heeled shareholders, is the problem and it hurts capitalism as much as anything because it makes it harder for smaller businesses to succeed. Amazon did not wipe out non-profit socialists. It wiped out small, profit-making businesses like local bookshops (to be fair, they were already on the ropes due to the heavy discounting of the big box chains like Indigo).

I would also point out that the 1% number is bogus. Many, possibly most, medical specialists and lawyers are in the top 1% in Canada (the top percentile starts just below $300K salary) and they are hardly in the same league as David Thompson or Edward Rogers (to name a couple Canadian billionaires). I think I once suggested that top .01% was probably closer to what people think of as impossibly rich.

So let's leave capitalism alone and focus on the real problem, which is the centralization of wealth and economic power in large corporations and their executives and shareholders.

Footnote: Our software is made by a small, for-profit corporation. We are hosted on another. Would you propose that we are supporting an evil system by doing so? I don't think so. I think supporting these small companies is the way to make capitalism work properly, for the benefit of the maximum number of people.
 

Waterfall

Well-Known Member
So let's leave capitalism alone and focus on the real problem, which is the centralization of wealth and economic power in large corporations and their executives and shareholders.
The problem I see with capitalism is that when it comes to taking care of those with less, the vulnerable and the poor, it becomes a choice rather than a duty.....which perpetuates that we will always have the poor among us.
And it seems to encourage monopolies which can hold democracy hostage.
 
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