O 'Toole future

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jimkenney12

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On CBC this morning commentators speculated the Trudeau is using vaccine certificates and requirements for compete vaccination for employment and travel as a wedge issue to divide the Conservatives and weaken Erin's ability to lead his party. If true, is it simply politics or does it also distract from questions about his leadership?
 

Luce NDs

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Politicians are borne as numinous leaders because of innate blinding by their own light ... temporal flash ... like the edge on model aircraft!

Sharp but easily trimmed with a Dremel Knife ... cautious such edges are sharp!
 

Mendalla

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If true, is it simply politics or does it also distract from questions about his leadership?
Isn't distracting from questions about his leadership, simply politics??

Throwing a wedge into the Conservatives is child's play these days and Trudeau really does not need to do anything but sit back and watch the fun now that O'Toole basically has them running in place. So I doubt that the political strategy element was more than an afterthought. There's good public policy reasons for doing it so why look for political ones.

As for O'Toole's future, a so-con coup is likely in the offing, though at least Erin seems to have forestalled any immediate caucus revolt. Will such a coup succeed? I hope not. It would likely mean the Conservatives become a niche part of the right and we are back to the Liberals as the "Natural governing party" for God knows how long. We need 2-3 strong parties, not one strong one and bunch of contenders for second.
 

Carolla

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Having just taken a couple of longish flights on almost full planes - I'm happy to hear that vaxing will soon become a requirement. I see it as a health policy decision, not political or aimed at the Cons.
 

revjohn

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What political thing is not simply politics? Are we upset with politics plain and simple or politics that shades Machiavellian?

Every leader should be under the microscope in the fall-out from this election. Every leader made mistakes and while not every wound in and of itself was fatal you cannot hope to survive thousands of cuts time and time again. Particularly if public support for your party waned. If growth and maturity were political strong-points one could argue that O'Toole, based on his polity reversals demonstrated the most growth over the brief campaign season. If those reversals are genuine and not crass attempts to bait and switch on centrist voters O'Toole stands a good chance at advancing the Conservative foot-print.

Mind you there will be Conservative concern about bleeding out to the PPC. It is pandering to the far-right ambitions of the PPC which rank and file Conservatives out West will demand of the leader while Conservatives out East will likely want to see more plays to the center. Conservative rank and file seeing more political success in the Western part of Canada will believe that the path forward for all of Canada is to move harder right.

The Machiavellian impulse would be to see O'Toole gutted because there is nothing stronger for parties that lean left even just a little than for right-leaning parties to lean (or appear to lean) further and further left. Apart from that Conservatives have been bleeding from the head since Harper was defeated and there is not a lot of depth that an attractive leader can issue forth from. Which does not bode well for leadership on the left. Without a strong challenger, the left will wither and get soft. Since the Conservatives are more Right leaning than center leaning I don't think that it is an entirely bad thing to attack an apparently center-leaning leader like O'Toole. It forces O'Toole to make a strong case to lean to the centre (which makes his campaign switches look genuine) and if he capitulates nobody feels bad for not voting for him since the switches were more optics than substance. The party will either lean to the center and prove a credible threat to the center-left Liberals or they will double down on leaning right and continue to lose in Ontario and Quebec.

If the Conservatives cannot comprehend that they actually need the center vote then they are useless and deserve to be mired in the ugliness of far-right politics. My biggest concern coming out of the last election cycle was the rise of the PPC. Apparently, it is becoming more and more popular to nurture division and ignorance. I blame the CPC for that and their history since Harper's fall or allowing anti-immigrant and anti-indigenous sentiment to flourish. O'Toole in giving Sloane a thumbs up in running for party leadership did himself no favours. Now he has to look at another poster boy for the disenfranchised racist right-wing vote climbing out from under his successful leadership bid.

Does this take the heat off of Trudeau? Sure it does. And while it insulates him from attacks from without he can't hope to remain immune from self-inflicted injury forever.

He kept his seat and his party kept the government. There are knives waiting for his back to become vulnerable. Truth and Reconciliation Day saw them sharpened and ready. No fool strong enough to think that taking the first stab will win them any favours because they know that the last thing the Liberal Party needs is a leadership race while running a minority government. Especially with no heir-apparent waiting to step forward.

Vaccine resistance has been strongest among the political right for several reasons. And some of the botched Provincial responses will reflect upon the National party whether that is fair or not. Federally, the vaccine passport notion can only reach so far. On a provincial level, it will either be resisted or seen as an attempt to keep pace with Ottawa. Depending on how the Province feels about Ottawa that will have ramifications. Here in NL, we are introducing vaccine passports. the come into effect November 1, 2021, and we crashed the system signing up on the first day of availability. We also sent 6 of 7 Members to sit on the Government side of the House of Commons. Our solitary Conservative is centre leaning. So there will be very little pushback for the Provincial scheme and that looks like we are keeping pace with the Federal Party the Province overwhelmingly populated.

Singh should also take the opportunity to reflect and the NDP would be remiss if they didn't take a critical view of his campaign performance. I think that the NDP in constantly hoping for an Orange wave significantly mistakes respect and support for a terminally ill Jack Layton with a desire for stronger left political movement.

PPC fortunes confirm that Bernier has tapped a vein successfully. Which will likely force Canada to confront its racist history more broadly and honestly. Or, continue to exercise denial.

Green Party misfortunes look increasingly like veiled racism on the leadership front. That May is refusing the interim leadership is also not a good look.
 

Luce NDs

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Thus the non political medium which those that hate thots despise ... if forced to do it on their own cognizance that may have been in disposed ...

Will such things wash as fresh? Old salts weep out if well soaked like flaked cod peace ... may be served up with Ban ion ... radicals that drift out from under the shades of brute forte?

Can this be worked as Job in abstract domains? Dome dover ... Æ'd ... thus icons slip and slide like Semite ... unacceptable to the anti-Semitic that do not recognize any signs due to something deficient ... vast abyss may be more extensive than we are informed about as innate ... thus out? Jungian slide ... Freudian Slip ...

Shape shifting wisps like that over the kell as Molly steams ... kell was once known as a filter ... a bit of grit on what has to be passed ... some clamed up! Like a caldron ... as caul ...

At a point it become unsinkable ... a S'm urph on the horizon ... Dunn gone ... like the use of ∫ ... in Runes it just lies there until integrated ...

Get it together folks sects and cults are not for dividing the house ... but to be utilized wisely for relaxation syndrome as we wind where ... down of course ... looking up at Sur?
 
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jimkenney12

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The NDP lacks a clear vision that voters can reject or embrace and effective communication of that vision. The Greens seem to be dealing with a version of the 70s problem with the NDP and the Waffle faction. Many engaged NDP supporters saw politics more as an intellectual exercise than an important power activity. I sense some Green Party members are more into philosophical debates than concrete action. Too many members of all parties are spending too much time in their comfort bubbles instead of being engaged in their communities.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
50,544
The NDP lacks a clear vision that voters can reject or embrace and effective communication of that vision. The Greens seem to be dealing with a version of the 70s problem with the NDP and the Waffle faction. Many engaged NDP supporters saw politics more as an intellectual exercise than an important power activity. I sense some Green Party members are more into philosophical debates than concrete action. Too many members of all parties are spending too much time in their comfort bubbles instead of being engaged in their communities.


Is the concentrated scatter of psyche inevitable as the I don't knew syndrome is dropped ... and these poles and radicals believe they do ...?

Thus the marketing of EGG Oz ... if you know you can make "M" at homœ ... as common ... for ordinary Johns ... Mœ has an aye for it ... yet much of this is lost an archaic literature ... ill disposed it was ... lost kells ... as loskells it died ... chez gone ... no words for ide ... although someone did speak of Lucile ... and someone coming across Ur ... may have appeared as a swamp or deep forest glen ...

By times it is good to be out there ... not dealing with those driven ... for accrued insubstantial collective! Lady Accrual with many spotted dogs ... A pox be upon yah? Many dott R's needed for balance ... a way with amends ... and we adjusted to the abyss ... overhead domains!

Well not always ... some fight it ... that special place 4 thoð ... Gretta Vosper mist it when I pointed out the variants ... tattered orb? Something to be kept under cover of fabric ... mystical? There are those that would like to control the entire field and thus avarice and deb Ull ... control freaks'?

Trumpets the time for the entire sentience to go ... few thought any more of ide ... thus the fide ling with bur*eau*cracy as a pool ... anon ... it comes!

As myth goes ... all is lost ... psyche myth?
 
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Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
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Let's face it, the biggest problem in politics right now is that power is seen as the end goal, not governing. The opposition parties are focused on getting into government and the governing party is focused on staying there. So you get policies based on poll results, social media trends, and gut response to events rather than actual, thoughtful, consistent platforms built around an idea of how to make the country work, and work better. Basically, everything Plato criticized about democracy (the lack of expertise in the people leading to bad decisions based on popularity rather than reason, the tendency to demagoguery) is present in our system right now. Not saying we need philosopher kings instead of an elected Parliament, but we do politicians who will listen to the experts and tune out the idiots, esp. when dealing with something like COVID or climate change that can only be solved by rational, careful application of knowledge and the scientific method. And we are not getting that from either left or right, even if the left seems (not "is", "seems") better on some fronts.

I do not know what is the fix. There used to be a theory of parliamentary democracy that we elected our representatives not to do our bidding, but to do what is best for us and the country. Nowadays, all too often, we fight against and throw out governments who try to do that and I think it is hurting us.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
50,544
Let's face it, the biggest problem in politics right now is that power is seen as the end goal, not governing. The opposition parties are focused on getting into government and the governing party is focused on staying there. So you get policies based on poll results, social media trends, and gut response to events rather than actual, thoughtful, consistent platforms built around an idea of how to make the country work, and work better. Basically, everything Plato criticized about democracy (the lack of expertise in the people leading to bad decisions based on popularity rather than reason, the tendency to demagoguery) is present in our system right now. Not saying we need philosopher kings instead of an elected Parliament, but we do politicians who will listen to the experts and tune out the idiots, esp. when dealing with something like COVID or climate change that can only be solved by rational, careful application of knowledge and the scientific method. And we are not getting that from either left or right, even if the left seems (not "is", "seems") better on some fronts.

I do not know what is the fix. There used to be a theory of parliamentary democracy that we elected our representatives not to do our bidding, but to do what is best for us and the country. Nowadays, all too often, we fight against and throw out governments who try to do that and I think it is hurting us.

Is that divine justice or just playing stupid as ignorance spread swell ...
 

jimkenney12

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Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
647
Hi Mendalla, I appreciate this statement. "Let's face it, the biggest problem in politics right now is that power is seen as the end goal, not governing. " Our problem is compounded by a media mostly dedicated to serving special interests, usually ones that do not have the public good in mind. The information provided in the media makes it harder for voters to choose representatives seeking to help make Canada a better country.
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pan(en)theist gorilla
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
35,591
Location
The Forest City
Hi Mendalla, I appreciate this statement. "Let's face it, the biggest problem in politics right now is that power is seen as the end goal, not governing. " Our problem is compounded by a media mostly dedicated to serving special interests, usually ones that do not have the public good in mind. The information provided in the media makes it harder for voters to choose representatives seeking to help make Canada a better country.
And that is further exacerbated by social media, which is not just dedicated to serving special interests but heavily manipulated by them. It is easier to get a pic of a woman breastfeeding taken down than hate-ridden spew from an alt-right blogger.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Messages
50,544
Power is something that lets you tool in an image in cowhide or other critters outside ... those not into humanity!
 
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