Meat - Eat it or not

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Mendalla

Happy headbanging ape!!
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Here is a thread to debate and discuss whether we should eat meat or not.
 
I do so as to fatten the bode an for feeding the lesser beasts ... edict of vermillion ... blood worming its was through life ... as cinnabar ... the theme of the movie RED on the mercury bomb ... a little quicksilver goes a long way to support loss of thought ...

Leonard Cohen used an image of this in Hallelujah ... red flag? Tis a complex icon ... the cycle goes round supporting chaos ... love is like that! Why as conflicting tome on love ... some really do hate loving aliens ... especially large strange word ...

Use a strange word in a statement .. and watch the reaction ... tis like a red flag under the skull ... you can see it in reactive I'z ... as fire ... sometime good ... sometimes not!

Can you imagine the collapse of the shell of Jae ... Zeus that'd be a shaken event ... and the shakers would say: yup ... the-O ... nothing to it for Q' luce ... thus Q'loes in sensations ... Çi fini ... Γ'Ç end? Some thorny issue is needed to cause apocalypse ... the great shining a' shung in the wildwood temple ... some manipulation may be needed to boshes it up ...

May have been thumped out by a Nordic deaf musi Chan ... as earth shaking ... dun dering yas ucce Mon ... delight was the buried myth! After that the soul of everything went missing ... stunned humanity?

Has to be something in there somewhere ... just a mire twinkle? Then few understand multiple diffusion ...
 
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My daughter is vegan and my son is vegetarian so they would say don't eat meat. As for me I do enjoy a good barbecue so it would be hard for me to go without meat. My wife and I are having turkey today for Easter dinner. The kids will make their own food.
 
My daughter is vegan and my son is vegetarian so they would say don't eat meat. As for me I do enjoy a good barbecue so it would be hard for me to go without meat. My wife and I are having turkey today for Easter dinner. The kids will make their own food.

Barbecued meat tastes amazing. It's hard to argue with that. Even better tasting imho is meat grilled over a campfire.

Only problem is, while it tastes delicious, barbecued meat remains the dead bodies of living beings who wanted to go on living.

I have learned over past summers that while I love the flavor of barbecued cows and birds, I also find the flavor of barbecued corn and asparagus right tasty.
 
Barbecued meat tastes amazing. It's hard to argue with that. Even better tasting imho is meat grilled over a campfire.

Only problem is, while it tastes delicious, barbecued meat remains the dead bodies of living beings who wanted to go on living.

I have learned over past summers that while I love the flavor of barbecued cows and birds, I also find the flavor of barbecued corn and asparagus right tasty.

Prepare yourself Jae ...
 
I'm an omnivore, largely. Vegetarian for a few years in my 20s, often give up meat for Lent.

Don't really 'get' vegan. The animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for their purpose of producing milk, eggs, honey, so it seems to me that it's merely a matter, as with most humans, of working for a living. And of humane care of the cows and chickens when they cease producing. Perhaps the price of eggs should incorporate those couple of years at the end of her life when Molly the hen gets to cluck and scratch and peck, while producing few or no eggs.
 
My thoughts on the matter. This will likely be the extent of my foray into this topic.

Evolution

Sorry, Jae, but it needs to be part of the discussion for the majority of us who do accept the findings of science. A well-supported hypothesis in evolutionary biology is that becoming omnivores was a necessity for early humans (very early, as in pre-homo sapiens). Our rapidly developing brain could only be sustained by nutrients found in meat. So, we are naturally omnivores going well back in the human evolutionary tree, probably the entire genus homo maybe even back to the Australopithecines and other pro-homo genii. TL: DR is that homo sapiens are naturally omnivorous and likely owe our success to that fact. One article on the subject that actually discusses two separate published studies:

Meat, Cooked Foods Needed for Early Human Brain

Diet

We eat too much meat in the West. Dietitians have been saying that for years. The amount of meat we actually need in a day (meal?) is, supposedly, the size of a deck of cards or something like that. 16 oz steaks are ridiculously big but we have them served as single person portions. To contrast, the Chinese (e.g. my wife) would cut that sucker up and mix the pieces with vegetables (celery, peppers, and hot chilis, to give an example of something I've had) and probably get two meals for two people out of it. We often have blocks of frozen pork and beef in the freezer because the quantities our stores sell are too much for one meal for her style of cooking. The Chinese got that way because meat, both pork and beef, was a luxury in many periods of their history, including as recently as the 1950s, when my wife herself experienced rationing of pork. But that necessity may have actually helped them develop a healthier diet with a better balance between animal and vegetable.

Ethics

Early humans, and even more recent tribal cultures, had to hunt their meat. That made them more respectful of the source and more careful in how they used the meat. Our modern factory farming, esp. here in North America, has made it, and the animals themselves, a commodity. Perhaps if we moved away from that model to one based on organic methods and smaller, free range herds, which would then force the supply down and the price up, we might encourage people to treat meat more like the Asians do. Give it some value and encourage us to use it more carefully and thoughtfully. That would result in the animals being treated more humanely and us having a better diet and attitude. IOW, I don't think eating meat is, in and of itself, unethical but our approach to obtaining it in North America likely is. Veganism and vegetarianism are not the answer, but a more conscious approach to how we use meat is.
 
I'm an omnivore, largely. Vegetarian for a few years in my 20s, often give up meat for Lent.

Don't really 'get' vegan. The animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for their purpose of producing milk, eggs, honey, so it seems to me that it's merely a matter, as with most humans, of working for a living. And of humane care of the cows and chickens when they cease producing. Perhaps the price of eggs should incorporate those couple of years at the end of her life when Molly the hen gets to cluck and scratch and peck, while producing few or no eggs.

The animals would exist. Why would they not.

As for getting to scratch and peck, it will be difficult for Molly to do that if her beak has been cut off. 21 Things the Egg Industry Doesn't Want You to See
 
I was not advocating for inhumane treatment, Jae, and I generally, myself, purchase my eggs at a farmers' market, from a farmer I know and respect as an ethical human being.

The animals would not exist in any fashion recognizable to us. They would go extinct with no-one to look after them; alternatively, a few might survive and evolve into some wild fashion of the domesticated. We have "domesticated" them. We're not going to have a sudden influx of cows on the streets, wild chickens in our backyards, if we all go vegan.
 
The animals would exist. Why would they not.

Most of the species we feed on do not exist in nature.They are the products of centuries of selective breeding from natural originals that were domesticated millennia ago. A domestic cow released into the wild could simply not survive.
 
Most of the species we feed on do not exist in nature.They are the products of centuries of selective breeding from natural originals that were domesticated millennia ago. A domestic cow released into the wild could simply not survive.

Then don't release them into the wild. Care for them in kind, compassionate ways. No need for us humans to keep torturing and slaughtering them.
 
Then don't release them into the wild. Care for them in kind, compassionate ways. No need for us humans to keep torturing and slaughtering them.

Who is going to pay for it? Right now, the farmer gets paid for the meat which gives him the money to run his farm.
 
I was not advocating for inhumane treatment, Jae, and I generally, myself, purchase my eggs at a farmers' market, from a farmer I know and respect as an ethical human being.

That's great to hear Bette. If only the vast majority of people were as kind as you. Millions of eggs get served up by the big food conglomerates every day, and said eggs are not coming from local friendly farmers operating such as your own.

BetteTheRed said:
The animals would not exist in any fashion recognizable to us. They would go extinct with no-one to look after them; alternatively, a few might survive and evolve into some wild fashion of the domesticated. We have "domesticated" them. We're not going to have a sudden influx of cows on the streets, wild chickens in our backyards, if we all go vegan.

And you see a problem with such evolution? Animals have been adapting for thousands of years.
 
Until they all die of old age, and then you just revert to non-animal food cultivation? What about the people who have made their living this way? All the fishermen? "Torture" and "slaughter" don't need to go together. Animals can live lovely lives well-cared by farmers, gently led by their farmer friend into a comfortable conveyance, then slaughtered respectfully and humanely.

It is, however, more expensive to do this. Would probably move us nicely towards the Asian use patterns of meat, as discussed by Mendalla.
 
What about the people who have made their living this way?

Through the torture and slaughter of animals? We should be freeing them to seek new lines of work. Vegetable farmers come most immediately to mind.

BetteTheRed said:
"Torture" and "slaughter" don't need to go together. Animals can live lovely lives well-cared by farmers, gently led by their farmer friend into a comfortable conveyance, then slaughtered respectfully and humanely.

Can. Let's not pretend Bette that that's the way the meat industry works. Today's factory farms, which feed the majority of the population, are not comfortable, respectful or compassionate.
 
So many opinions!

At our house we eat a very modest amount of meat and a wide range of vegetables and fruits. This is a challenge for me as I'm not a big fan of many veggies and my desire for them isn't increasing as I age. Almost all of our meat, and all our eggs are purchased from ethical producers, I guess one could describe us as 'middle of the road'.

I have increasingly less patience for those people in my life who make a 'big thing' over their food decisions. So many of them seem to be using their decision on this as a way to get attention from others. In my opinion it is very rude to imply that others are responsible for providing your choice of foods. Eat what is offered or keep quiet about the whole thing. As the major cooks we try to offer guests a range of delicious and healthy food.
 
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