Lord, It's Hard to be Humble: Philippians 2: 1-18

[Mystic]

But that's what I'm saying, when did this change and why?

It changed after Paul's death. Paul stressed gift-based ministry and leadership roles. After his death, the church was institutionalized with
the development of hierarchical leadership roles of monarchical bishop, presbyters, and deacons, a hierarchy that established male dominance.
Hierarchical leadership evolved to combat the growing number of heresies like Gnosticism that plan gued congregations.

 

[Waterfall]

It changed after Paul's death. Paul stressed gift-based ministry and leadership roles. After his death, the church was institutionalized with
the development of hierarchical leadership roles of monarchical bishop, presbyters, and deacons, a hierarchy that established male dominance.
Hierarchical leadership evolved to combat the growing number of heresies like Gnosticism that plan gued congregations.

Thanks.
Speaking of Paul, have you heard the argument that Luke, Paul's companion, was really a woman, named Thecla?
Philippians 4:3 is just one of the reasonings behind this reasoning when he asks his "true companion" to settle the women's argument. Of course there is more evidence about this supposedly.

 

[paradox3]

Really, even within many churches, there's powergamers and stair climbers who could be seen as proclaiming Christ out of selfish ambition rather than love. Something to think about, for sure.

True enough. Churches are human institutions after all.

But to go back to Philippians 1: 15: Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill.

Could this refer to rivalry between the different factions of Judaism? The Jewish Christians were still an emerging movement at this point.

 

[Luce NDs]

Late first century with Ignatius as the monarchical bishop of Antioch and the male takeover of leadership roles in Paul's churches in the Deutero-Pauline Pastoral Epistles.

"Monarchal" is symbolic of Kings ... and the scriptures have details about the difficulties with kings, etc. Then immortal is too far beyond the comprehension of the physical monarchs! Thus some g for it and others fall for it ... and it is nothing like it incarnates in reality ... it is all in the psyche ... for those that have one ... pu my sol that's complex for those stuck in the mire ...

It is best to be humble ... operate as partisan ... underground Eire ... just observe what is going on up there lightly now! Hang a light in the port hole ... that's the left side opposing the star board plank ... constantly dipping because of the heavies ...

 

[unsafe]

Could this refer to rivalry between the different factions of Judaism?

What do you Mean ===what are the different factions of Judaism that you speak of here ----can you clarify ?==

that would go with this scripture in its context---

But to go back to Philippians 1: 15: Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill.

 

[paradox3]

What do you Mean ===what are the different factions of Judaism that you speak of here ----can you clarify ?==

Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots. From what I have read, Judaism was evolving in this period with different messianic and apocalyptic ideas emerging. There could even have been other alliances such as the followers of John the Baptist.

that would go with this scripture in its context---

But to go back to Philippians 1: 15: Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill.

Yes, I was thinking some of the early Jewish Christians might have been motivated by political considerations etc. So not purely by faith and goodwill.

 

[unsafe]

Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Zealots. From what I have read, Judaism was evolving in this period with different messianic and apocalyptic ideas emerging. There could even have been other alliances such as the followers of John the Baptist.

OK ---thanks for your reply and clarification much appreciated makes sense

that would go with this scripture in its context---

But to go back to Philippians 1: 15: Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill.

Yes, I was thinking some of the early Jewish Christians might have been motivated by political considerations etc. So not purely by faith and goodwill.

I think you are right here --I think that some were envious of Paul and his success in getting the Gospel heard and winning souls and now that Paul was out of the way they were able to Preach out of their envy to take the Credit away from Paul and give the credit to themselves for the success that was happening ----

I say -------Paul says this in verse 18 ----it doesn't matter if the Gospel is preached out of selfish ambitions --the important thing here Christ is being Preached -----so in that he rejoices ---

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.

16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.

18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

 

[Luce NDs]

Was Paul a Roman Pall in disguise? A nebulous personality disturbance ... having fallen from his horse?

Common folk fall for such myths ... and then they rethink and resolve ... forming sapient drips on the bottom of the ground of being ... so we can say intellectual stuff is downsized compared to desires, wants, etc. Humans are infrequently satisfied souls ... sometimes for good reason! Given the overbearing authority!

 

[Mendalla]

Looking at the Hymn again (5-11), while it does focus on the humility of Christ, there is definitely some theology being stated or implied. Is this enough to be seen as a kind of statement of faith? What does it tell us about Jesus, or at least how Paul and his contemporaries saw him? How relevant is it today?

Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he existed in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
assuming human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a human,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
9 Therefore God exalted him even more highly
and gave him the name
that is above every other name,
10 so that at the name given to Jesus
every knee should bend,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[paradox3]

I was always taught that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. Not that he assumed the appearance of a human being or had to empty himself of anything.

 

[Mystic]

T

Looking at the Hymn again (5-11), while it does focus on the humility of Christ, there is definitely some theology being stated or implied. Is this enough to be seen as a kind of statement of faith? What does it tell us about Jesus, or at least how Paul and his contemporaries saw him? How relevant is it today?

He "emptied Himself" of all His divine prerogatives to become human. Thus, Jesus had to grow in "wisdom and favor with God," "was tested om the same way we are." and "had to learn obedience through the things He suffered (Luke 2;52; Hebews 4:15; 5:7-8)."

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine emptied domains ... no room for nothing of the powerful duos ... emotions and intellect fused? That's hard, difficult for pious and stoic that believe they are already lumped together! When alas ... look at the scatter ... a old guy's perspective of a domain 've nothing to concern your sef with ... s we choose to not worry ... even if some alien information as for eign ... perhaps should. Then there is Perhaps Love ... it was charted ... some being possessed with the power ... an obsession ... OCD?

Then there are these profound diagnostics ... derived from Gnostic ... sacred know how ... stashed away! Because we're not to speak of radical items ... thus we get excess politicians, even in the temple ... AH Li, or Eli Sah? Sah being the head part as hedonist ... thus don 'd as that man that saw his wife as a hat ... bit of cover?

Don Das????

 

[Mystic]

Tpday I was struck by Paul's close relationship with his young missionary companions. In 2:19-22 he praises Timothy for his gentle pastoral care that contrasts with some of the power-hungry local leaders and Ephphrodites who almost died of an illness contracted during his missionary journeys as Paul's representative (2:25-29).

Speaking of Paul's missionary companions, here is a trivia question for you: Who is the only missionary companion of Paul's whose writing we have in the original autograph? When I visisted old Corinth, I asked our tour guide to take us down a path by the parking lot to some ruins that one need not pay to see. The path took us to a small theater and a foundation of a building with the Latin inscription, "I built this road in appreciation for services rendered." It was signed, "Erastus, director of public works," who is mentioned 4 times in the NT as one of Paul's temporary missionary companions.

 

[Luce NDs]

In the two halves of a vast psyche ... there exists a great distance of span marked by the stance of Hercules ... outside that: The UNSEEN World!

Don't say a word ... maintain the ineffable ... thus the writ, some say texted ... other well scripted and stuck in edi face ... fast?

What's in word ... it is a immortal study ... some say fixed ... but it isn't ... like some psyche complex ... not yet rendered! That's like boiled as a bagel ... it too being round and prone to bite ... purely pha 'n tas tic ... if dispersed adequately with respect ... it's dark mystical and all ...

 

[Luce NDs]

It all happened so fast even the gods suffered forgetting ... and being broken in shards! Like that Magi Chord between cheese strings and "G" strings in the abstract Zona ... Zingers ... latency? That's not 'ere yet! But agreed a R.I.P ... Eyre ... m'n that woman is busy tearing up Skye ... causing a sinking ... that' SUR!