Kids and taunts about God

[chansen]

This is starting to weigh on my daughter. According to her, she is getting taunted at school for not believing in God. "How can you not believe in God? Of course there's a God!" is something she commonly hears. Kids talking about God with her seemed to start when her brother died.

I recognize she is patterning her belief, or non-belief, from me. I've told her many times that she can believe what she wants. She is very scientifically-minded, and loves facts, especially about animals, but lots of things interest her. What I've suggested she do, is the next time another kid tells her God exists, is just ask them to demonstrate that to her. Show her why they think God exists.

She continued in the car this morning, that she doesn't want to believe in God. I pointed out how that's a terrible way to approach anything. We shouldn't believe or disbelieve because we want to, but because we have no choice but to choose. I couldn't believe if I wanted to, because I don't see the reasons given for the existence of God as sufficient evidence. She seemed to understand my position.

But mostly, I was surprised this still happens, that kids of religious parents are still little shits about God. I did explain that many Christians believe many different things about God and Jesus, that some take the stories very literally, and some approach Jesus' words more like life lessons, and lots of people fall in-between.

We plan to explore parts of the bible soon. She wants to understand more about this Christianity thing. She's going at it from her typical scientific approach, lol.

Any passages to recommend? Sites? And not just the whitewashing ones, please. I'm looking to provide a decent overview of the good and the bad.

 

[Jaebius]

Any passages to recommend? Sites? And not just the whitewashing ones, please. I'm looking to provide a decent overview of the good and the bad.

Good on you for wanting to provide her with both.

Here are some sites worthy of consideration...

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/main.html

http://www.tyndale.ca/seminary/inministry/reading-rooms/missional-church

Now, on the issue of the other children taunting your daughter - this is just not right. No one should be so verbally harassed for any reason - being a non-believer, being a believer, etc. Every child needs to feel safe from such things at her school.

 

[Luce NDs]

Chits about God ... that's because they've never grown beyond that fecund passion stage and their world is yet small ... possibly inverse! God Love is like a bo'sun point ... penetrates the heart as something painful to allow soulful exit! And so ID goes ...

 

[revjohn]

But mostly, I was surprised this still happens, that kids of religious parents are still little shits about God.

In fairness. Kids are prone to be little shits. It doesn't matter what their parents espouse. Kids have seen manipulation at work and they do explore ways that it might be made to work for them. I know everyone likes to think that their kids are always little darlings. Such is not usually the case. The good news is that catch a kid being a little s**t early enough and they are prone to be remorseful about it. Let them be little shits often enough and let them get away with it and they turn into big shits as they get older.

Any passages to recommend? Sites? And not just the whitewashing ones, please. I'm looking to provide a decent overview of the good and the bad.

Part of the problem with a passage by passage exploration is that it removes the passage from context and a good text or a bad text might rely heavily on that context.

There are some books of the Bible which are really quite short and encapsulate much of what Judaism or Christianity believe without bogging down in the detail of the faith narrative.

There is also the question of translation. There is no one perfect translation of the original languages. That said there are several that are fair translations and more easily read. NIV (New International Version) or NRSV (New Revised Standard Version).

The book of 1 John is short and is a fair summary of Christianity it is loaded with what now appears more jargon (in that the words have all but disappeared from common public use). So if you want a glossary of terms let me know and I can provide that before hand.

The book of Philippians is also short it has some jargon as well.

The shortest books in the Old Testament are highly contextual and very pointed in message.

The book of Psalms is basically a book of poems and they cover a wide range of human emotion. There are happy psalms, angry psalms and psalms of despair. Psalms is a good book for observing how God's people think of God and speak to God.

The book of Proverbs is basically a collection of, well, proverbs. The wisdom of the day and they are sometimes helpful and unhelpful. They are dated in some instances and timeless in others. The imagery appealed to can be exotic or mundane.

The God portrayed in scripture is a fairly complex individual who on one page is terrifying and on the next loving.

Apart from that there are some passages which I have committed to memory because they have spoken to me at particular times in my life.

Job 38-41 (God unloads a lot of pent up stuff apparently)
Psalm 27: 10
Isaiah 51: 1
Lamentations 3: 24-33
Lamentations 4: 10 (So far beyond my worse day ever)
John 3: 17
John 8: 7-11
John 11: 41-44
Romans 3

Some of the texts in the list are more cheerful than others. Lamentations gives it away that you shouldn't find it upbeat. That said I find it fairly honest. Lamentations 4: 10 breaks my heart.

 

[Jaebius]

Rev John makes excellent suggestions. I'd also add in a full reading of one of the gospels. I'd suggest Mark, since it's the earliest (and shortest).

 

[crazyheart]

Have you ever taken Claire to a few different churches so she can check out

what's going on? Maybe she wants to believe in God because it gives her comfort that her brother is somewhere

being loved? I wonder how the question of God etc came up to initiate the taunting? Did

she start talking about it or did the classmates?

Sorry, not to helpful, I'm afraid -just ,more questions.

 

[Jaebius]

Have you ever taken Claire to a few different churches so she can check out

what's going on? Maybe she wants to believe in God because it gives her comfort that her brother is somewhere

being loved? I wonder how the question of God etc came up to initiate the taunting? Did

she start talking about it or did the classmates?

Sorry, not to helpful, I'm afraid -just ,more questions.

Taking her to a few church gatherings is an excellent idea crazyheart.

@chansen I can help you find your local Fellowship Baptist congregation.

 

[revjohn]

At this point Church gatherings is probably a non-starter.

Can you imagine being bullied yourself and having anyone suggest you immerse yourself among a group of individuals who are identified bullies?

Its something like attempting to cure a fear of water by throwing someone in a pool or a fear of heights by pushing someone off of a ledge.

Please also note that the connection to God in this child's life revolves around the death of her little brother. Not only is she being targetted for bullying because she doesn't believe in God, the targetting for bullying is directly tied to perhaps the most grievous moment of her young life. Perhaps we all could try to be less mercenary about getting her to believe something and invest more energy in helping her wrestle with stuff that is more important to her rather than putting notches on our own belts.

I am mindful that shortly revsdd will be closer to Chansen and family and that he has already established a pastoral relationship. I suspect that he would be willing to answer questions and, as he admits to coming to Christianity from Atheism he might have a more refined sensitivity to certain issues.

In the meantime the request was for scripture passages no reason they can't keep coming in.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

I thought of this book. It's for adults but is presented like a children's book. It's been a few years since I read it - I only remember that it was well done. Not sure, maybe there's something @chansen you might get out of it that's helpful, and could go through it with Claire. Or maybe Sunday School teachers know of a similar book written for kids?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/124911.Good_Goats

 

[ChemGal]

It sounds like she could use a level-appropriate world religion course, or even just a session, but I doubt one exists.

Does she talk to many people who aren't Christians? When I was at a protestant school, I think I had the most religiously diverse set of friends and I think it helped me be comfortable with different people have different beliefs.

From what you have said before, it sounds like she has already responded with some of her own questions like Why do you believe in God. Would it also help if she has friends of different religions to point out one believes in God & Jesus and another believes in blank (she can ask if she doesn't know) and that for her she doesn't believe in any particular higher power?

I'm sorry to hear this is what kids are doing. At that age I could imagine asking some insensitive questions if my parents didn't get to me first. I'm pretty sure my parents would have gotten to me first though - given me some pretty direct orders to not ask my friend any types of questions related to death.

 

[chansen]

I thought of this book. It's for adults but is presented like a children's book. It's been a few years since I read it - I only remember that it was well done. Not sure, maybe there's something @chansen you might get out of it that's helpful, and could go through it with Claire. Or maybe Sunday School teachers know of a similar book written for kids?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/124911.Good_Goats

Through a blending of story, scripture and theology, this book tackles questions of sin, hell, vengeance in such a way that readers are led to transformation and healing.

*facepalm*

That's just bulls**t propaganda. Let's tackle the subjects of sin and hell and vengeance in such a way that all the kids see are butterflies and daisies!

I think that's the problem with most all the resources in this area - either they're written from a Christian perspective and give the religion a complete coat of paint, or they're written from an anti-theistic perspective and nuke the faith from orbit. I don't think there is much out there from a neutral perspective, which is why I was thinking going directly to scripture was probably the best approach.

I have always considered buying her this, just to share some laughs:

But I'm not looking to poison her on Christianity. Just like I'm not looking for crazy pro-Christian children's propaganda.

 

[Delightful Life]

wow, bizarre school, chansen?

 

[chansen]

Thanks for the list, John. I'll go through those.

Really, thank you.

 

[chansen]

wow, bizarre school, chansen?

Not really. Kids just have a hard time processing what is acceptable behaviour with respect to their beliefs or the beliefs of their parents, and what isn't. I doubt this school is much different from most. But when something like a death occurs, framing it in religious terms is all they know. And when my daughter refuses to play along, they step up their game. Kinds sucks, but we'll discuss it, her and I, and do some exploring of what people believe. She has one Hindu and one Muslim in her class. She knows there are other religions, and she knows all their holidays. She's really good at retaining stuff like that. But her understanding of the basics of what Christians, in this case, believe, is not very strong. Complicating matters is that Christianity encompasses a wide spectrum of beliefs. Thanks for that, that makes my job ever so much easier.

 

[ChemGal]

Thanks for the list, John. I'll go through those.

Really, thank you.

That sounds more like what you're asking for. Not sure if this may also be helpful:
http://www.uri.org/kids/world_chri.htm

Basic, but it gives a quick overview of other religions and there's quite a few resources so maybe there's a few in there that aren't too basic or different from what you're looking for.

 

[chansen]

Taking her to a few church gatherings is an excellent idea crazyheart.

@chansen I can help you find your local Fellowship Baptist congregation.

I have Google if I ever want to go down that road. Can anyone who has met her imagine Claire in a group of Baptist kids? I'd fear for them. It would be like setting off a reason bomb.

No, the point of this was to explore what these kids believe. She wants to understand where they're coming from, why they are saying what they are saying, and what stories they are referencing.

 

[ChemGal]

I have Google if I ever want to go down that road. Can anyone who has met her imagine Claire in a group of Baptist kids? I'd fear for them. It would be like setting off a reason bomb.

No, the point of this was to explore what these kids believe. She wants to understand where they're coming from, why they are saying what they are saying, and what stories they are referencing.

Yeah, I get the angle you're looking for - I just thought getting a world religion viewpoint of Christianity might be some help.

Don't forget when you're looking into this that most of the kids ARE probably getting a pretty whitewashed version. Some might be memorizing scripture/reading the bible, but they are getting the children-level explained interpretation, which is probably dumbed down compared to what you'll be doing, especially based on Claire's approach.

 

[chansen]

I agree with that approach, Chemgal. Just that right now, it's the kids of Christian parents who are being the worst to her, so that's what she's interested in.

Part of me is worried that, if she learns too much, she could turn into a little, prettier version of me and start chipping away at the faith of her classmates. The rest of me thinks, they brought it up, so their faith is fair game for her to criticize.

 

[Jaebius]

At this point Church gatherings is probably a non-starter.

Can you imagine being bullied yourself and having anyone suggest you immerse yourself among a group of individuals who are identified bullies?

Its something like attempting to cure a fear of water by throwing someone in a pool or a fear of heights by pushing someone off of a ledge.

Please also note that the connection to God in this child's life revolves around the death of her little brother. Not only is she being targetted for bullying because she doesn't believe in God, the targetting for bullying is directly tied to perhaps the most grievous moment of her young life. Perhaps we all could try to be less mercenary about getting her to believe something and invest more energy in helping her wrestle with stuff that is more important to her rather than putting notches on our own belts.

I am mindful that shortly revsdd will be closer to Chansen and family and that he has already established a pastoral relationship. I suspect that he would be willing to answer questions and, as he admits to coming to Christianity from Atheism he might have a more refined sensitivity to certain issues.

In the meantime the request was for scripture passages no reason they can't keep coming in.

The solution to remedy the bullying situation isn't to avoid attending church gatherings. Rather, it is quite rationally, stop. the. bullying.

 

[chansen]

I wouldn't call it "bullying" yet. They're small taunts. She isn't traumatized. She's mostly trying to figure out what the hell they're on about.