Kamloops and the residential schools in general

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Mendalla

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So the pope expressed "sorrow" and called for "the political and religious authorities of Canada continue to collaborate with determination to shed light on that sad story and humbly commit themselves to a path of reconciliation and healing." And is he going to order Canadian bishops to cooperate? Order the release of the records of the residential schools where deaths happened and were covered up (most of them from what I am hearing)? Do an actual apology and request forgiveness from the indigenous people of Canada? Making the pope sad isn't what is wrong here is the short version.


I don't see "enough" here. Someone needs to go hardcore on the RCC in Canada. Seek court orders forcing the release of documents and take it all the way to the Supremes if needed. Forget truth and reconciliation. They were given that opportunity and largely did not give much of either. I really don't get why there is so much pussyfooting around with the RCC. They are a private organization with a long history of covering up serious problems within their organization and need to be reined in and held to account. And they were running these schools more or less on behalf of the government, which means taxpayers have a right to the full story (with protection for the privacy of the victims, of course).

With all the talk about the residential schools in the news of late, here's a thread to talk about it, air our feelings, express support for the indigenous people seeking truth, and so on.
 

Northwind

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He needs to do more than be sad and urge Canadian leaders to participate in finding the truth. Many records from Catholic "schools" (how can they be called schools really) were sent to the Vatican. If he were sincere in his desire for reconciliation, he would do his part and return those records. He would also be doing the same for similar facilities operated by the Catholic Church such as the mother and baby homes in Ireland.

I have had the opportunity to be able to listen to survivors of IRS. You only need to hear one story to realize why this is such a horrible part of our country.
 

KayTheCurler

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Yesterday I held someone , both of us weeping, as the multi generation story of a family was shared. It will take more time before I can be comfortable with this situation. Somehow there is too much space between 'knowing bad things happened' and 'knowing the story of someone it happened to'. There is such courage on a daily basis in the indigenous populations.
 

Luce NDs

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Yet the powers will still state get over or through it so we can forget and go on with tougher scars ... beneath that potential PTSD popping up!

With tough enough scales of justice ... turtling ... and everything is upended!
 

ChemGal

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Maybe this is a good place to get information.
Not meaning this in an insensitive way - all of the residential schools involved abuse, starting from their goal in general, even if everyone who was actually at the schools were kind and caring - which based on the times/how the children were viewed I'm sure there was further abuse happening at all of them.
Were the different church schools run differently though? Were some known to be worse than others, have different death rates/inability to account for children, etc?
While the United church apologized, have records been released or were they mostly destroyed?
 

Luce NDs

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Maybe this is a good place to get information.
Not meaning this in an insensitive way - all of the residential schools involved abuse, starting from their goal in general, even if everyone who was actually at the schools were kind and caring - which based on the times/how the children were viewed I'm sure there was further abuse happening at all of them.
Were the different church schools run differently though? Were some known to be worse than others, have different death rates/inability to account for children, etc?
While the United church apologized, have records been released or were they mostly destroyed?
Much is buried and denied as the powers decide what to cut ... the little folk in the paradigmatic scale are silenced! Tis the earthy (mire) way ... the spirit ploughs on ...
 

Mendalla

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And at least one cardinal leaps into the fray on the defensive. I wonder if he even comprehends the level of sorrow and anger among indigenous people and their supporters.



While the United church apologized, have records been released or were they mostly destroyed?
Good question. And what about government records related to the schools in general, not just particular churches.
 

Luce NDs

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And at least one cardinal leaps into the fray on the defensive. I wonder if he even comprehends the level of sorrow and anger among indigenous people and their supporters.




Good question. And what about government records related to the schools in general, not just particular churches.

Is it possible to be spiritually diminished and soulfully denied in this world? This happens often when credibility (ethos) is questioned ...

I question a great deal about unseen angels and it isn't well liked ...
 

Waterfall

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This is not news to indigenous peoples, but the bones of their ancestors are speaking to the perpetrators of these crimes.....I seriously dont think the records of these children will be recovered but a good DNA base probably will.
The bones are crying out...." I existed"!
 

Luce NDs

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This is not news to indigenous peoples, but the bones of their ancestors are speaking to the perpetrators of these crimes.....I seriously dont think the records of these children will be recovered but a good DNA base probably will.
The bones are crying out...." I existed"!

Will this too be denied? Tis the right of the powers ... or so it is stated! The demons must be suppressed ... as part of despised democracy by the extreme righteous ... they never made an Eire thing ...
 

Carolla

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@ChemGal - this link will provide you with some answers to your questions from your post above re records, apology etc. There is extensive information if you follow the links.
Response to Kamloops Residential School Graves Discovery

I was very appreciative of the way Hillhurst UC (Calgary) centered their service this morning around this issue. And last week they held recognition ceremony with a ringing of their church bell - 215 times - to mark each life lost at Kamloops. It took 7 full minutes for the bells, and moved me to tears.
 

JayneWonders

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I feel that this information was known to anyhow who listened to the Truth & Reconciliation sessions or read the books, or read reports and followed stories.
Somethign is not sitting right with groups increasing tehir posting, activity, etc about the losses as if this is news that children died. It is news that their are now remains that can be identified (if the people desire) and returned, but, it is not news that there are dead children.

I just feel that I should be listening to what is being said by those who are most impacted.
 

Mendalla

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I feel that this information was known to anyhow who listened to the Truth & Reconciliation sessions or read the books, or read reports and followed stories.
Somethign is not sitting right with groups increasing tehir posting, activity, etc about the losses as if this is news that children died. It is news that their are now remains that can be identified (if the people desire) and returned, but, it is not news that there are dead children.

I just feel that I should be listening to what is being said by those who are most impacted.
I think the problem is that without the bodies, or at least a list of names and maybe some stories, they are just numbers to most people. That's why getting the documents released is so important. That's where we might start getting some names and maybe some faces and stories. And the RCC was not exactly hypercooperative with the T&R commission either. The T&R commission themselves did identify finding the bodies as important and wanted a budget to do it (which was turned down by, at the time, the Harper government). So I think this is, in a way, a continuation of their work and Murray Sinclair, who chaired the T&R commission, has been speaking out ever since the discovery so he seems to think so, too.

So, yes, we should be listening to those who are most impacted. But they were the ones who went looking. The results of the scanning work were announced by the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation so finding them clearly is important to them. Acting on this and recognizing it as important IS listening to those impacted.

But the RCC do not seem to be listening, Just today, one of Canadian cardinals talked about how a "papal apology may not be necessary" and seemed to make light of the whole documentation issue. The pope's alleged sorrow is meaningless if it does not result in positive action to support those who truly have a reason to grieve and feel sorrow.
 
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JayneWonders

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Right, i guess, there is something that is sitting wrong with me for "white folks" and gnashing of teeth and woe, or church services that focus on it.
I am still trying to process, but, it doesn't feel like listening or sitting with.
 

Mendalla

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there is something that is sitting wrong with me for "white folks" and gnashing of teeth and woe, or church services that focus on it.
That is, indeed, problematic. On the other hand, it beats the "nothing to see here" attitude of the past (or the RCs). At least it is acknowledging harm done.
 

Northwind

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This came through my FB feed today:

"Every Indigenous person you know is either a First, Second, or Third Generation Survivor of Indian Residential Schools. Let that sink in."
 

Inukshuk

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Some haunting paintings by Kent Monkman ~ commissioned by U of Toronto, for an exhibit in 2017
 

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Waterfall

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I heard this poem called "Monster" by Dennis Saddlemen on CBC last week and it moved me to the core. He attended the residential school in Kamloops for 11 years :

 

Northwind

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I heard this poem called "Monster" by Dennis Saddlemen on CBC last week and it moved me to the core. He attended the residential school in Kamloops for 11 years :


I heard that poem too. It's powerful and heart breaking.
 
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