Job, a certain man from Uz

[GordW]

THis Sunday [in a fit of great courage or extreme insanity] I am starting a 6 week series on the book of Job (by which time I should be good and ready for my vacation time).

To structure the series I am using (with some adaptation) the readings laid out here:
Commentary on Job 1:1-22 by Kathryn M. Schifferdecker

THis week I am reading Chapters 1 and two. Here we meet Job. Here we see Job used as a pawn in a debate between YHWH and The Satan. Here we see Job lose everything and yet remain faithful and pious (and patient though that will change soon).

Why is Job Good? That is the question God and Satan are debating. Why are we good? Is it only when we are blessed? Only when we know we are blessed?

I am saving the whole "Why do bad things happen to good people?" piece for week 2 when Job starts his protesting. This week I am focusing on why Job is good. My early thoughts are here:
Ministerial Mutterings: Looking Forward to June 3, 2018 -- Beginning of Series on Job

 

[BetteTheRed]

In the Jewish tradition, Job is a righteous gentile, not a Jew.

 

[crazyheart]

Seeler's thread on reading the bible may be of interest to you.

 

[Mendalla]

In the Jewish tradition, Job is a righteous gentile, not a Jew.

Is there actually a scriptural (or even Talmud) reference for that, though? Or just tradition?

It doesn't really matter to me because it is one of those stories where the deep meaning matters more than the details. Though this is a detail that could change how we see or get to that deeper meaning.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings

 

[Mendalla]

Dictionary of the Old Testament: Wisdom, Poetry & Writings

Makes sense.

 

[GordW]

In the Jewish tradition, Job is a righteous gentile, not a Jew.

though if it is a folk tale about someone who never existed that may be moot. I am with Mendalla

It doesn't really matter to me because it is one of those stories where the deep meaning matters more than the details.

 

[BetteTheRed]

To me it's an interesting point because it reinforces the idea of the universality of "righteous" people. LM Montgomery's "the race that knows Joseph".

 

[Luce NDs]

In the Jewish tradition, Job is a righteous gentile, not a Jew.

Job is a work of creation ... hated by the gods of war? The gods of power tend to drift that way ... seems to cause my mind to work ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Makes sense.

Given that Juda' or Jude'n is an expression of power and energy ... perhaps Job is a gentile (lesser) power below the real horizon --- James Hilton ... on deep myths!

Thus spiritual dimples in space --- Einstein! The old guise out there smiles darkly ...

 

[Waterfall]

But really when a volcano blows does it really care if there are good or evil people in it's path? Did Satan or does someone creating evil? Does evil have a conscience? Where was God's conscience other than to say not to kill Job?

 

[Luce NDs]

But really when a volcano blows does it really care if there are good or evil people in it's path? Did Satan or does someone creating evil? Does evil have a conscience?

Are volcanos kind of inert regarding process of thought? Some Gods in the human myth are compared to volcanos ... great Zeus could that be powered sous-la? That be from bottom end ... there is a story about reactions going up the spine ... leaving a chill over heated blasts!

Maybe just a story ... personification of something loosing it ...

 

[Mendalla]

But really when a volcano blows does it really care if there are good or evil people in it's path? Did Satan or does someone creating evil? Does evil have a conscience?

Volcanoes are neither good nor evil. Nor do they care if we are. They are a force of nature that just happens. Some of the effects are good (islands get built, soil gets enriched), some less so (Pompeii, Leilani Estates). The fact is, as I pointed out in my Kilauea thread, while people are losing their homes to the lava, the land those homes are on would be non-existent without Kilauea and the other Hawaiian volcanoes. Good and evil are human judgements and irrelevant to natural forces, which generally come with a mix of constructive and destructive effects.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Especially when "construction" and "destruction" are entirely human constructs.

 

[Mendalla]

Especially when "construction" and "destruction" are entirely human constructs.

Not so much that as they are relative. Sometimes the same effect accomplishes both so whether it is one or the other is a matter of perspective. The KP boundary asteroid wiped out vast swathes of life but also set the stage for others to ascend. Constructive or destructive? Depends on whether you're a non-avian dinosaur or a mammal.

 

[Waterfall]

Volcanoes are neither good nor evil. Nor do they care if we are. They are a force of nature that just happens. Some of the effects are good (islands get built, soil gets enriched), some less so (Pompeii, Leilani Estates). The fact is, as I pointed out in my Kilauea thread, while people are losing their homes to the lava, the land those homes are on would be non-existent without Kilauea and the other Hawaiian volcanoes. Good and evil are human judgements and irrelevant to natural forces, which generally come with a mix of constructive and destructive effects.

And Satan may also serve as an explanation when God seems to be allowing "evil"...after all if the story is a metaphor, just replace the volcano as an act of God with choosing to blame it on an evil counterpart that is evil, which saves face for God. When in fact, true, it is an act of nature, but I'm sure the early church fathers may have seen it as a useful "dualism" at times to keep some from losing faith and not being angry at God.

 

[Waterfall]

Especially when "construction" and "destruction" are entirely human constructs.

Including war, but how convenient to say one is fighting an axis of evil and we are on God's side. Rather than face the fact that evil comes from within us.

 

[Mendalla]

And Satan may also serve as an explanation when God seems to be allowing "evil"...after all if the story is a metaphor, just replace the volcano as an act of God with choosing to blame it on an evil counterpart that is evil, which saves face for God. When in fact, true, it is an act of nature, but I'm sure the early church fathers may have seen it as a useful "dualism" at times to keep some from losing faith and not being angry at God.

Or you could just adopt an understanding of God like process that allows for natural forces that are neither good nor evil.

 

[Waterfall]

Or you could just adopt an understanding of God like process that allows for natural forces that are neither good nor evil.

But this story comes from the early teachings and continues to teach today within churches....not often do I hear of process theology being a dominant force in even today's main stream or evangelical churches. Could it be before Jesus, God was given His humanity or lack of it, through mythological stories?
Hard to imagine Jesus being inserted into the story of Job.

 

[Waterfall]

From the gospel of Thomas, Jesus supposedly said: "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
Not sure if this applies to Gords topic, but I thought I'd through this out there.