How long can a UCC use lay-preachers for?

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Sterton

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Hi! I was told our church could not use lay-ministry indefinitely even though we only have two services a month. How many years can we do this according to the United Church of Canada? Thanks!
 

BetteTheRed

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I don't think there's a 'region' in Canada capable of enforcing any rules about anything, quite frankly. I'm guessing that the on-going convo is more likely to be "you're alive and okay with whatever model? good for you..."
 

Luce NDs

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I don't think there's a 'region' in Canada capable of enforcing any rules about anything, quite frankly. I'm guessing that the on-going convo is more likely to be "you're alive and okay with whatever model? good for you..."
It is just the way bean has become ... that spor in our heads? What spor? Our way of denied thought process due to working ethics ... no time for the other side of the body-mine conduit! It too is indelible ... and po' ... the "r" bean gamma and black ... practicum unseen ... blind code!
 

Luce NDs

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Someone once said don't look AL ice ... evolving to don;t listen ... and linguistically we were excised and can't say! Cloes to that blossoming silence of awe ... at what tremendous revelation was missed as co dead! It just lies there begging response ... from between the sheets of onion skin ...

Read into it ...
 

Mendalla

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I recall past conversations about requiring a ordained minister to lead communion but I guess that could be a retired but still active minister, like some of the ministers of visitation around here, volunteering for a Sunday as needed. Certainly, that's how the last communion I was at was led.
 

Carolla

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I recall past conversations about requiring a ordained minister to lead communion but I guess that could be a retired but still active minister, like some of the ministers of visitation around here, volunteering for a Sunday as needed. Certainly, that's how the last communion I was at was led.
I believe there is a UC process for 'others' to apply for being granted the official status to lead communion.
 

Carolla

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There is a church in my area that has consciously chosen NOT to have a minister on their staff. They use supply ministers & lay worship leaders, guest speakers etc. on Sundays. So actually - it IS possible to have a community of faith that does not have an identified minister on staff.
 

Mendalla

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There is a church in my area that has consciously chosen NOT to have a minister on their staff. They use supply ministers & lay worship leaders, guest speakers etc. on Sundays. So actually - it IS possible to have a community of faith that does not have an identified minister on staff.
Which is where I was going with the thread I started on lay leadership in the UCCan.


(Yes, I'm shamelessly plugging my own thread. :cool: )
 

mgagnonlv

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The Anglican Church of Canada does things a bit differently.

Officially, a parish is lead by a priest – typically called the "incumbent" – who is kind of the spiritual leader of the parish. But technically, a parish can be a multi-point parish, and if a parish has 6 or 7 points far apart from each other, it's evident that the priest can't be there every Sunday.

Technically, nothing prevents a parish priest to decide to never visit congregation X, whether it is because of distance, because the congregation is too small, or because that congregation prefers to use lay leadership. Practically, a church community could do almost all its services without a priest if the priest and the bishop are OK with that. But there are a few limitations to such a scenario:
  • Lay leaders must be licensed to preach and lead the service.
  • Only a priest (either the regular priest or any other visiting priest) can consecrate the bread and wine and serve communion.
  • Prior to 1970 (±), most Anglican congregations had Eucharist once a month, or maybe twice a month. Nowadays, most parishes like to have a weekly Eucharist, so it's typically rural parishes that end up having Eucharist only once or twice a month.
So there may not be any official Anglican rule requiring a parish priest, but in practice, it's almost as if there were one.
 

KayTheCurler

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A nearby Anglican church closed due to lack of active congregants and 'inefficient use' of the priest's time.. It was close to another parish in a larger community (the one everyone shopped and did business at). The next priest decided that there should be regular services at the closed parish and started them up again. When that priest moved on to another parish the small congregation closed again.
 

Carolla

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The Anglican Church of Canada does things a bit differently.

Officially, a parish is lead by a priest – typically called the "incumbent" – who is kind of the spiritual leader of the parish. But technically, a parish can be a multi-point parish, and if a parish has 6 or 7 points far apart from each other, it's evident that the priest can't be there every Sunday.

Technically, nothing prevents a parish priest to decide to never visit congregation X, whether it is because of distance, because the congregation is too small, or because that congregation prefers to use lay leadership. Practically, a church community could do almost all its services without a priest if the priest and the bishop are OK with that. But there are a few limitations to such a scenario:
  • Lay leaders must be licensed to preach and lead the service.
  • Only a priest (either the regular priest or any other visiting priest) can consecrate the bread and wine and serve communion.
  • Prior to 1970 (±), most Anglican congregations had Eucharist once a month, or maybe twice a month. Nowadays, most parishes like to have a weekly Eucharist, so it's typically rural parishes that end up having Eucharist only once or twice a month.
So there may not be any official Anglican rule requiring a parish priest, but in practice, it's almost as if there were one.
It's interesting to me how 'organized/corporate' religion has imposed all these rules of who can do what - and the Anglican church is certainly not alone in this!
But really, is this what Jesus intended? I think not, but it serves as power & control measures that have developed over centuries - and no longer serves us well - but we seem loathe to overhaul 'the rules'.
 

Nancy

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We have definite rules in our region for LLWL regarding number of times we can preach at one church in a row. I imagine each region has its own rules. And, during the re-licensing process, we need to meet certain criteria (Boundaries course, police check, on-going education). I'm okay with that. However, if, for some reason, I don't get re-licensed, apparently I can still be a worship leader. I know someone who didn't complete the LLWL course, and she still leads worship services. However, if I don't get re-licensed, it will be a clear sign from God to give this part of my life up and find something else to do!
 

Mendalla

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We have definite rules in our region for LLWL regarding number of times we can preach at one church in a row. I imagine each region has its own rules. And, during the re-licensing process, we need to meet certain criteria (Boundaries course, police check, on-going education). I'm okay with that. However, if, for some reason, I don't get re-licensed, apparently I can still be a worship leader. I know someone who didn't complete the LLWL course, and she still leads worship services. However, if I don't get re-licensed, it will be a clear sign from God to give this part of my life up and find something else to do!
The guy who has been leading worship at Wesley-Knox is not, as far as I know, an LLWL and he preached most of their sermons from Sept. through to January, when he took off to South Sudan to work on a mission project he's involved with there. He did a couple more after he came back. This month, other people seem to be stepping in.
 

revjohn

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Hi! I was told our church could not use lay-ministry indefinitely even though we only have two services a month. How many years can we do this according to the United Church of Canada? Thanks!
I suspect it depends upon the Region.

I am aware of a 4 consecutive Sunday "rule" in that the same LLWL could not preach 4 consecutive Sundays in the same Community of Faith. If memory serves that is actually a justice issue as the time assigned to Sunday Supply (which involves some Pastoral Visitation) would actually equal a 1/4 time call or appointment and as such require the employee to receive pension and benefits.

So the admonition not to lean on the same LLWLs indefinitely is about not taking advantage of others.

Non LLWLs within the congregation could lead worship indefinitely and more power to them that are willing.
 

Luce NDs

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JOB prevention or Job protection? Does cut down the opposition ...
 

revjohn

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Luce NDs said:
JOB prevention or Job protection? Does cut down the opposition ...
Depends on who you talk to I'm guessing.

There should never be competition among the various ministry streams.

Nor should one stream of ministry be seen as a cheaper version of a more expensive model.

Both apparently far more common than is ideal and such understandings undermine ministry and foster injustice.
 
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