Holy Troublemakers

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That is really what sets Christianity apart from the rest of the Abrahamic traditions. Even Islam, which ranks Jesus as the most important prophet before Muhammad, rejects deification. I think it is pretty clearly an inheritance from the classical Gentile world, where demigod heroes abound in the mythology. Tom Harper's Pagan Christ hypothesis may not be too far off the mark, really. Perhaps Christianity is not a survival of a pagan cult as he suggested, but it certainly was shaped by becoming part of that world.
 
Imagine if the enlightenment of Christ (the light) allowed floating and drifting satyrs ... when bouncing off hard surfaces!

Is that superficial or deeply facetious ... in light of the anti fa's? What counters "Fas" better than Dohs ... and $ ...

Thus the concept of the atom at rest ... a difficult chore to attain with all the heat in the visible environment! Atoms tend to such IT up ... as light energy! Thus it goes ... lightly ... with peculiar sensationalism!
 
BetteTheRed said:
Hmmm...now you have me wondering about the difference between the Torah's central character, Moses, and the Christian central character, Jesus. Interesting that we deified Jesus, Moses (and Mohammed) remain human.
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And despite Moses and Mohammed having flaws, they are still considered great men and continue to have followers......Christians insist on Jesus having no flaws and without sin...
The Shephard of Hermes was widely read by early Christians and its main theme is that after baptism you have one chance to be forgiven of all sin and after baptism one is to now attempt to live a sinless life. After the day of repentence comes, no sins will be forgiven.
So possibly it wasnt until after he was baptized by John that he started to be seen as sinless and seemed Godlike?
 
Mendalla said:
Or until after he was dead and allegedly resurrected? It seems rather like posthumous myth-making to me.
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Some "gnostic" sects taught that resurrection takes place before you die. Another word for "born again" possibly?
 
Jesus’ baptism marked a decision. He turned away from the realm of power to enter the realm of spirit. He approached the Jordan River and was immersed in its waters by John the Baptist. Rising from the water he entered the desert. There he was tempted to exercise self serving power. He refused, crossed the Jordan River to begin his mission. That being the work of liberating persons from the bondage of religious and political power.
 
GeoFee said:
liberating persons from the bondage of religious and political power.
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Points out a particular problem with Judaism then (the temple being a collaborator with the political overseer), and many religions today, our own Christianity very much at fault. When religious and political power are linked, the "least among us" - the metaphorical women, orphans, poor - suffer disproportionately.
 
FOr the record, I am including the idea of "Make Good Trouble" in my list of hoped for priorities coming out of 2020:

What Next God? ( A Newspaper Submission)

There is a joke I have seen on Facebook a few times recently: God is asking the angels in charge of scheduling if they have put all the stuf...
gordsponderings.blogspot.com gordsponderings.blogspot.com
 
GordW said:
FOr the record, I am including the idea of "Make Good Trouble" in my list of hoped for priorities coming out of 2020:

What Next God? ( A Newspaper Submission)

There is a joke I have seen on Facebook a few times recently: God is asking the angels in charge of scheduling if they have put all the stuf...
gordsponderings.blogspot.com gordsponderings.blogspot.com
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Would angels that we haven't observed yet be referred to as unseen, abstract or dark? Honky ... like swans in the night ...
 
Back to the original question. The books in the Christian scriptures include the Gospels which are stories about Jesus named after their claimed authors, Acts which is an elaborate story about the early church and Paul, Letters by Paul to communities and individuals, though the letters to individuals were probably not written by Paul, letters by some leaders in the early community, and Revelations which is a story of challenge, consolation and hope. John the Baptizer did not write any stories or letters, and no one on record wrote any letters to him. What would be the point of a book titled John the Baptizer? All of the books in the Hebrew scriptures named after prophets were part autobiography, part biography and part story. Not all prophets had a book named after him, such as Elijah and Elisha.
 
GordW said:
Found this on Facebook:
View attachment 4140

IS that what we think the church is? Could be? Should be? A community of Holy Troublemakers? In the comments for the post Sad Jesus (the poster) refers to John Lewis' admonition to "make good trouble"
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My Inner Anarchist goes YEAH!
My inner Canadian goes Christianity needs both Liberals and Conservatives. The Conservatives as the majority who keeps the church going and the Liberals to be those who test and kick at the fences of tradition.
My inner Mystick goes perhaps, time will tell
My inner Conservative goes Marxism(BLM seem to be Marxists) as the only way to do change is dumb and blind and dangerous
My inner Postmodernist goes all words hypnotize, taking the unknown and chopping it into manageable chunks that others may or may not grok.
My inner Writer goes nice slogans :3

No, you cannot levitate yet Duplo Blox!!!

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
The original question:
GordW said:
IS that what we think the church is? Could be? Should be? A community of Holy Troublemakers?
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My answer is yes with no reservation. As the thumb resists the fingers to make the hand useful to the body, so we resist the principalities by which the earth and its peoples are manipulated in service to power. I say this in full awareness that the Church has not been resistant but conformed to the way of the world. Indeed, the Church has blessed the way of the world all along its modern history. Protestants in Germany blessed young persons sent to kill and be killed. Protestants in Canada blessed young persons sent to kill and be killed. All while industrialists (capitalists) on both sides profited by the production and sale of military machinery. War as the means to revive failing economies.

Jesus made it plain that he would be killed by the religious and political powers of the day. Even so he continued in the way of God. His followers were clearly informed that in taking up the cross they too would be in the sights of the prevailing principalities and powers. Many were imprisoned and crucified. This pattern is revealed in all of our Church history. In every age, religious persons conformed to political processes and abandoned the work of resistance. There were exceptions who refused and resisted such conformity. These were treated harshly and often executed.

History reveals a community of "holy and troublemakers". This in contrast to the majority who claim fellowship with Christ while practicing conformity to the present world order.
 
Waterfall said:
Some "gnostic" sects taught that resurrection takes place before you die.
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I am not gnostic but agree with their teaching. In 2010 I stood by my paternal grandfather's grave in Friesland, where I was born. In the presence of God I made the decision to consider myself dead to the world and alive to the spirit. In a sense my baptism, at the age of thirty, became literal, I died to my material life and was raised to my spiritual life. From that time I have been engaged in a process known as sanctification. This being a process of refinement by which all that is worldly is removed and all that is heavenly is present. I am travelling along the way of God, revealed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, after turning away from the manners and customs of the present world order. For this I am regarded skeptically by religious devotees.
 
BetteTheRed said:
... in the Hebrew Scriptures where there's many books of prophets, major and minor, John the Baptist has no chapter/book in the New Testament. Why is this?
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I suspect the diverse gospel authors presented John the Baptist as representative of the Hebrew prophetic tradition. He denounces prevailing social structures and announces the coming of a new world order. For me this seems the case and I take John the Baptist as a person pointing to the way of God. I suspect, in view of his appearing as a hermit, John the Baptist had no interest in putting himself at the center of attention.

Such thoughts represent what I hear when reading the text and not what the texts may actually say.
 
GeoFee said:
I suspect the diverse gospel authors presented John the Baptist as representative of the Hebrew prophetic tradition. He denounces prevailing social structures and announces the coming of a new world order. For me this seems the case and I take John the Baptist as a person pointing to the way of God. I suspect, in view of his appearing as a hermit, John the Baptist had no interest in putting himself at the center of attention.

Such thoughts represent what I hear when reading the text and not what the texts may actually say.
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A sense of bean rite intuit? Out-of-here ...
 
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” Martin Luther King Jr

“The country is in deep trouble. We've forgotten that a rich life consists fundamentally of serving others, trying to leave the world a little better than you found it. We need the courage to question the powers that be, the courage to be impatient with evil and patient with people, the courage to fight for social justice. In many instances we will be stepping out on nothing, and just hoping to land on something. But that's the struggle. To live is to wrestle with despair, yet never allow despair to have the last word.” Cornel West
 
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