Hell Being a Place Where Evil people go to be punished and Heaven being a place where Good people go comes from Plato

[Waterfall]

I think you need to check your statement out real close so you know for sure you are right -------God's Grace comes as a cost to people ---they have to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour through the right Faith which comes from the Word ---God's Grace comes Through Faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the Cross for us ---

If one doesn't believe in what Jesus did on the Cross for them ---and receive Him in their heart ----then they are not under God's Saving Grace --they are under the Curse of the Law ------the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah and they are doomed as of now to hell ------

but God does step in and keep His Covenant with the 12 Tribes of Israel ----the 144,000 before the 7 year tribulation starts and Marks them and uses them to preach the Gospel to all the world and keeps them safe during the Horror that is coming to this earth -------

The Law is in place for unbelievers still ------God's Saving Grace is given to those who acknowledge His Son and receive Him as their Lord and Saviour ----

From Google ---

Saving grace is the grace that God imparts to His elect—those who receive Christ as Savior to become born-again. . Yet He also gives each person the freedom to choose Him or the world


I say -----You have free choice to believe or not ---your choice not God's ---Blaming God for your choice is playing the Blame Game ----in my view -----

It blows my mind that people think they can live the way they want to and ignore God completely and reject God the Son and expect to reside with Him in their end ------crazy thinking in my view ------

But people can certainly test the waters and find the truth when they pass on from this world ------very easy -----Reject the only one who can Save you ------and see where you end up ------that will be your stark reality -----

That's what you believe....to me grace is unmerited and scandalous because you've done nothing to earn it.

 

[unsafe]

That's what you believe....to me grace is unmerited and scandalous because you've done nothing to earn it.

Your talking Common Grace not Saving Grace ------

God makes it rain on the just and the unjust ------that is Common Grace ------the sun shines on the just and the unjust ---that is common Grace -----every time you open your eyes after sleeping all night that is Common Grace -----

Many unbelievers prosper -----that is Common Grace -----many unbelievers have talents ---that is Common Grace ------

God's Saving Grace is given to people who God opens their hearts and mind to respond to the Gospel ---and receive His Son as their Lord and Saviour ------there is a big difference between Common Grace and Saving Grace -----

The Goodness of God and Common Grace​

The Goodness of God and Common Grace - The Gospel Coalition

Common grace, an expression God’s goodness, is every favor short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

DEFINITION​

Common grace, as an expression of the goodness of God, is every favor, falling short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God; this includes the delay of wrath, the mitigation of our sin-natures, natural events that lead to prosperity, and all gifts that human use and enjoy naturally.

SUMMARY​

While humanity is totally depraved and deserving of God’s wrath, God mercifully postpones his destroying wrath and graciously blesses all men, even apart from salvation. This is called God’s common grace. Common grace includes all undeserved blessings that natural man receives from the hand of God: rain, sun, prosperity, health, happiness, natural capacities and gifts, sin being restrained from complete dominion, etc. The doctrine of common grace explains how a man can be totally depraved and yet still commit acts that are, in some sense, “good.”
This common grace, however, falls short of salvific grace; all humans still need the saving work of the Spirit to reconcile them to God.

 

[Waterfall]

Your talking Common Grace not Saving Grace ------

God makes it rain on the just and the unjust ------that is Common Grace ------the sun shines on the just and the unjust ---that is common Grace -----every time you open your eyes after sleeping all night that is Common Grace -----

Many unbelievers prosper -----that is Common Grace -----many unbelievers have talents ---that is Common Grace ------

God's Saving Grace is given to people who God opens their hearts and mind to respond to the Gospel ---and receive His Son as their Lord and Saviour ------there is a big difference between Common Grace and Saving Grace -----

The Goodness of God and Common Grace​

The Goodness of God and Common Grace - The Gospel Coalition

Common grace, an expression God’s goodness, is every favor short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

DEFINITION​

Common grace, as an expression of the goodness of God, is every favor, falling short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God; this includes the delay of wrath, the mitigation of our sin-natures, natural events that lead to prosperity, and all gifts that human use and enjoy naturally.

SUMMARY​

While humanity is totally depraved and deserving of God’s wrath, God mercifully postpones his destroying wrath and graciously blesses all men, even apart from salvation. This is called God’s common grace. Common grace includes all undeserved blessings that natural man receives from the hand of God: rain, sun, prosperity, health, happiness, natural capacities and gifts, sin being restrained from complete dominion, etc. The doctrine of common grace explains how a man can be totally depraved and yet still commit acts that are, in some sense, “good.”
This common grace, however, falls short of salvific grace; all humans still need the saving work of the Spirit to reconcile them to God.

And here I thought your opinions came from God and not formed opinions from theologians.
For me, Grace is Grace.

 

[unsafe]

Grace is Grace.

yes --Grace is Grace but there are different graces given by God -----but that is Ok because you are not interested in knowing the difference ---

Your belief --your decision to ignore the difference ----God says this

 

[Mendalla]

Grace is Grace but there are different graces given by God

Indeed. While this is on Grace and peace, it does touch on the UMC's view of Grace. And this is one of the simpler version I found online. Others seem to go as high as eight. Being Methodist, this version comes from John Wesley.

What is grace? Is it different from peace?

United Methodists understand grace as a gift from God. Peace is found in our response to God's grace. Ask The UMC is a service of United Methodist Communications.

www.umc.org

RevJohn used to talk about different varieties of Grace, too.

 

[Waterfall]

Indeed. While this is on Grace and peace, it does touch on the UMC's view of Grace. And this is one of the simpler version I found online. Others seem to go as high as eight. Being Methodist, this version comes from John Wesley.

What is grace? Is it different from peace?

United Methodists understand grace as a gift from God. Peace is found in our response to God's grace. Ask The UMC is a service of United Methodist Communications.

www.umc.org

RevJohn used to talk about different varieties of Grace, too.

Do you have scripture to verify this?

 

[Mendalla]

Do you have scripture to verify this?

I don't, of course. I don't necessarily even believe it myself. I was just pointing out that there's pretty wide support in Christian thought for the idea that there is more than one kind of Grace. I'm sure John Wesley likely had some kind of scriptural basis for his three kinds of Grace. My guess would be that it might derived from scripture using reason rather than found explicitly, but that applies to a lot of Christian doctrinal schools. Don't have time to hunt up his original writings right now to find out.

 

[Waterfall]

I don't, of course. I don't necessarily even believe it myself. I was just pointing out that there's pretty wide support in Christian thought for the idea that there is more than one kind of Grace. I'm sure John Wesley likely had some kind of scriptural basis for his three kinds of Grace. My guess would be that it might derived from scripture using reason rather than found explicitly, but that applies to a lot of Christian doctrinal schools. Don't have time to hunt up his original writings right now to find out.

I'm sure that different churches have different interpretations about this....after all it's very hard to think of someone whose life was lived in strict devotion to living a good life could actually find oneself at the "gate of heaven" alongside a criminal or murderer.
Surely to God, He would be more selective....so why not qualify grace? Otherwise there is no reason to be "good". But that's the thing about Grace, there's no conditions.

 

[Mendalla]

I'm sure that different churches have different interpretations about this....after all it's very hard to think of someone whose life was lived in strict devotion to living a good life could actually find oneself at the "gate of heaven" alongside a criminal or murderer.
Surely to God, He would be more selective....so why not qualify grace? Otherwise there is no reason to be "good". But that's the thing about Grace, there's no conditions.

The varieties of Grace are really about Grace working in different ways. Salvation is one type, another type is Grace bringing us to knowledge of God, and so on. I kind of think it is more about Grace being a tool that God uses in different ways rather than there being literally more than one kind of Grace. But I may be off base on that. That's just the sense I get in reading about the Wesleyan version. Here's a series on the UMC website that does into a bit more depth but still doesn't really elucidate the scriptural basis for it.

The Wesleyan Concept of Grace

John Wesley preached and wrote about the amazing grace that leads us into renewed relationship with God. Learn more in this series.

www.umc.org

 

[Waterfall]

The varieties of Grace are really about Grace working in different ways. Salvation is one type, another type is Grace bringing us to knowledge of God, and so on. I kind of think it is more about Grace being a tool that God uses in different ways rather than there being literally more than one kind of Grace. But I may be off base on that. That's just the sense I get in reading about the Wesleyan version. Here's a series on the UMC website that does into a bit more depth but still doesn't really elucidate the scriptural basis for it.

The Wesleyan Concept of Grace

John Wesley preached and wrote about the amazing grace that leads us into renewed relationship with God. Learn more in this series.

www.umc.org

Seems Grace gets turned into man's doctrine rather than be thankful for the gift it is.

 

[Mendalla]

Seems Grace gets turned into man's doctrine rather than be thankful for the gift it is.

Some would argue it is a human doctrine to start with. Does Jesus ever actually use the term or is it mainly from Paul?

 

[Luce NDs]

Is stupidity a grace ... just given as is AD onus ... for which will will be judged according to the response we give back?

 

[Waterfall]

Some would argue it is a human doctrine to start with. Does Jesus ever actually use the term or is it mainly from Paul?

Hmmm, good question....perhaps in the stories we know. When he tells us to throw the first stone if we've never sinned (although that story is said to be added to the Bible), hung on a cross between two thieves facing death, etc....

 

[unsafe]

Seems Grace gets turned into man's doctrine rather than be thankful for the gift it is.

Mendalla said -----Some would argue it is a human doctrine to start with. Does Jesus ever actually use the term or is it mainly from Paul?

Grace isn't a thing ----Grace is a Person ----------Jesus is Grace -----Saving Grace comes through Jesus Christ

People also ask


Why is Jesus called grace?
Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ

.

 

[Waterfall]

Some would argue it is a human doctrine to start with. Does Jesus ever actually use the term or is it mainly from Paul?

Grace isn't a thing ----Grace is a Person ----------Jesus is Grace -----Saving Grace comes through Jesus Christ

People also ask


Why is Jesus called grace?
Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ

.View attachment 8740

Thanks for the scripture, makes sense.

 

[Delightful Life]

As I recall, he talked a lot about the day of Judgement and the coming of the kingdom, which is heaven of a sort, but not the kind of heaven people later believed in. And he didn't really talk about hell in modern terms either that I recall, just that the unrighteous dead would be cast into the garbage pit. No talk about the elaborate systems of torture you find in Tartarus in the classical world or in later Christian thought. So the argument could be made that he did, but it was hardly the kind of heaven and hell we would think of by those words today.

Yeah, literally the garbage pit in that valley where all the horrific child sacrifices used to happen

I also like the metaphor of the "outer dark", whatever that is supposed to be -- it always makes me think of Lovecraft

 

[Delightful Life]

The One True way for people to know for sure if Hell is a real place or not is to keep rejecting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and see where their Spirit and Soul ends up when they die --

Jesus describes heaven and hell very vividly in His Teachings ---so it boils down to what people want to believe and what they don't want to believe ------but just because you don't want to believe in a real place called hell --that does not mean that it doesn't exist ------

Salvation is for the here and now -----so it is our choice to accept it or reject it -----

This cop out statement that people use to say that Jesus never talked about Hell is ridiculous-----the scripture is very clear on where people end up by their own choice ------there are 2 places mentioned -----

Satan is the great deceiver and has many duped ---

Surley a Loving God would not send anyone to Hell ------

View attachment 8731

I always like yout clipart :3
Note that in my original post, Jonathan Tweet isn't talking aboot Hell existing or not but rather the ideas of Hell being the place where evil people go and Heaven being a place where Good people go isn't Biblical but rather comes from the Pagan Plato...

 

[Delightful Life]

Indeed. While this is on Grace and peace, it does touch on the UMC's view of Grace. And this is one of the simpler version I found online. Others seem to go as high as eight. Being Methodist, this version comes from John Wesley.

What is grace? Is it different from peace?

United Methodists understand grace as a gift from God. Peace is found in our response to God's grace. Ask The UMC is a service of United Methodist Communications.

www.umc.org

RevJohn used to talk about different varieties of Grace, too.

It is thanks to RevJohn that I gained an appreciation of TULIP :3

He is such a good communicator

 

[Luce NDs]

What if grace is not anthropomorphic (personified character) and just clear essence (that is to say a weird spirit)?

Would these things whip about a hard cored psyche? Do these degrade eventually ... exoplasm?