Hell Being a Place Where Evil people go to be punished and Heaven being a place where Good people go comes from Plato
- Thread starter Delightful Life
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yes, it did. Bart Ehrman spent a fair bit of time on that in his Heaven & Hell, which we had a discussion group on for a while (linked below), but never quite finished.
The main difference is that in Plato and other classical versions, it is all, both the paradise of the good and punishment for the bad, in the Underworld ruled by Hades. The sky is reserved for deities.
www.wondercafe2.ca
And really, some of what Plato wrote even goes back to the Pythagoreans.
The main difference is that in Plato and other classical versions, it is all, both the paradise of the good and punishment for the bad, in the Underworld ruled by Hades. The sky is reserved for deities.
Heaven and Hell, by Bart Ehrman
After much to and fro, I am ready to start a discussion of Heaven and Hell by Bible scholar Bart Ehrman. It is a fascinating look at how views of the afterlife in Greek and Jewish cultures contributed to the development of the Christian ideas around Heaven and Hell. I currently plan to open...
www.wondercafe2.ca
And really, some of what Plato wrote even goes back to the Pythagoreans.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
Jonathan Tweet is quite the guy
He helped make some of my favourite rpgs
Wrote a preschool book on evolution (Grandmother Fish)
and is very interested in religion (he has lots on that website)
He helped make some of my favourite rpgs
Wrote a preschool book on evolution (Grandmother Fish)
and is very interested in religion (he has lots on that website)
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Thought the name sounded familiar. Have probably heard of him through forums.rpg.net.
If you really want a good version of the Platonic underworld, chapter 6 of Virgils' Aeneid is where you want to go. Being an epic poem, it is a much more colourful, readable version than the one in The Republic. And even that predates Christianity by something like 50-60 years (Virgil wrote it over a period of time). It is hampered somewhat by being Augustan propaganda, so that some of it loses its impact if you don't realize that and know a bit of the history.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
Ty :3
And considering the mythical nature of history as mostly written by winners that cannot read intu it! This displays Aeneid or in English spin a need to know ... what we are denied by powers that declare; "You don't need to know that" ... thus Gnostic thoughts and the detach interpreted as detachment and there we lose it ...
Conclusion: Myths are critical thought in chaos or disordered array ... rearrangements are perfuse ... pay attention to where they go! Mental shafts????
unsafe
Well-Known Member
The One True way for people to know for sure if Hell is a real place or not is to keep rejecting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and see where their Spirit and Soul ends up when they die --
Jesus describes heaven and hell very vividly in His Teachings ---so it boils down to what people want to believe and what they don't want to believe ------but just because you don't want to believe in a real place called hell --that does not mean that it doesn't exist ------
Salvation is for the here and now -----so it is our choice to accept it or reject it -----
This cop out statement that people use to say that Jesus never talked about Hell is ridiculous-----the scripture is very clear on where people end up by their own choice ------there are 2 places mentioned -----
Satan is the great deceiver and has many duped ---
Surley a Loving God would not send anyone to Hell ------
Jesus describes heaven and hell very vividly in His Teachings ---so it boils down to what people want to believe and what they don't want to believe ------but just because you don't want to believe in a real place called hell --that does not mean that it doesn't exist ------
Salvation is for the here and now -----so it is our choice to accept it or reject it -----
This cop out statement that people use to say that Jesus never talked about Hell is ridiculous-----the scripture is very clear on where people end up by their own choice ------there are 2 places mentioned -----
Satan is the great deceiver and has many duped ---
Surley a Loving God would not send anyone to Hell ------
Mendalla
Happy headbanging ape!!
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
As I recall, he talked a lot about the day of Judgement and the coming of the kingdom, which is heaven of a sort, but not the kind of heaven people later believed in. And he didn't really talk about hell in modern terms either that I recall, just that the unrighteous dead would be cast into the garbage pit. No talk about the elaborate systems of torture you find in Tartarus in the classical world or in later Christian thought. So the argument could be made that he did, but it was hardly the kind of heaven and hell we would think of by those words today.
I would think Jesus would be more pleased that we follow him willingly rather than under threat of torture and consequence.
unsafe
Well-Known Member
God wants all people saved there Waterfall ---it is us who choose to make the decision not to be saved ---Can't blame God your our own choice ------
We have no choice even though powers tell us to follow them as they kow mores ...
They often are the basis of what's laid out legislatively to serve the secular executives ...
Thus some are extracted and said to be gone, or out of here ... scattered sentience! How we lose it ... through irrationalities ...
Great way to twist things, but basically you seem to be promoting Jesus as saying do this or else I will kill you in a very bad way....but instead he offers Grace to those who are lost .
Thus Onyx'd ... the Hebrew nailing process used to fasten parables in the slimy brain ...
unsafe
Well-Known Member
And their you have it -------Not the Kind PEOPLE Believe in ------well what kind do many people believe in -----and that is just their Belief ---Jesus who is the Word vividly describes Heaven and Hell both in Scripture -----If they don't want to believe in a place called Hell then they will twist scripture to say that Jesus never preached on a place called Hell ----and that a Loving God would never send anyone to a place called Hell -----
But that does not mean that hell does not exist ---it only means that the person do not want to believe that hell exists ------and again -----people can test the truth of the Scripture by rejecting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour in the here and now and see when they die where their Spirit and Soul goes ------then they will know the Truth for sure ------but once you die your judged -----no second chance ----
unsafe
Well-Known Member
I think you need to check your statement out real close so you know for sure you are right -------God's Grace comes as a cost to people ---they have to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour through the right Faith which comes from the Word ---God's Grace comes Through Faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the Cross for us ---
If one doesn't believe in what Jesus did on the Cross for them ---and receive Him in their heart ----then they are not under God's Saving Grace --they are under the Curse of the Law ------the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah and they are doomed as of now to hell ------
but God does step in and keep His Covenant with the 12 Tribes of Israel ----the 144,000 before the 7 year tribulation starts and Marks them and uses them to preach the Gospel to all the world and keeps them safe during the Horror that is coming to this earth -------
The Law is in place for unbelievers still ------God's Saving Grace is given to those who acknowledge His Son and receive Him as their Lord and Saviour ----
From Google ---
Saving grace is the grace that God imparts to His elect—those who receive Christ as Savior to become born-again. . Yet He also gives each person the freedom to choose Him or the world
I say -----You have free choice to believe or not ---your choice not God's ---Blaming God for your choice is playing the Blame Game ----in my view -----
It blows my mind that people think they can live the way they want to and ignore God completely and reject God the Son and expect to reside with Him in their end ------crazy thinking in my view ------
But people can certainly test the waters and find the truth when they pass on from this world ------very easy -----Reject the only one who can Save you ------and see where you end up ------that will be your stark reality -----
paradox3
Well-Known Member
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
The parable we are studying this week says exactly this about Jesus killing people in a very bad way. It says nothing about offering Grace to the lost.
Of course we can find grace and forgiveness elsewhere in His parables and teachings.
Depends on who we choose to be representing God in the parable doesn't it?