From whence the meaning?

[GordW]

Driving past the local Roman Catholic church yesterday I saw their sign. It read "THere would be no Easter Sunday without Good Friday"

Now obviously there is truth there. Death precedes resurrection. ANd certainly I have been known to bemoan the fact that too many people seem to want to go from the celebrtion of a palm parade to the celebration of an empty tomb without the deep valley that lies between. But I have to ask. Without Easter Sunday would Friday have meant anything?

In some Christian discussions there is so much emphasis on the cross that we might miss out the Resurrection. Which is more important? The death or the life?

I know that for me the Resurrection colours everything else. The power of Easter is not in the cross, though there is much that we can do with that part of the story, much there to find meaning in. The power of the Christian story, the Easter story lies in Sunday and the revelation that somehow life wins.

Should the sign read "There would be no Good Friday without Easter Sunday"

 

[Mendalla]

Absent the Resurrection, Jesus would have been just another crucified enemy of Rome. But a living Jesus also cannot be resurrected and being resurrected from an ordinary death kind of takes the real meat out of the event.

So, I think the two are intertwined and both statements are incorrect on their own. Good Friday and Easter Sunday need each other for either to be truly meaningful.

 

[unsafe]

The Easter Event has 3 events in My view ------the before the Cross ---the beating and flogging ----the Nailing to the Cross --the Death ---then the Resurrection -----Jesus beating the 2nd Death -----

Many make the Jesus Nailed to the Cross and the Resurrection the main event ----ignoring what Jesus went through and did for us before they hung Him on the Cross and the importance of what He accomplished with the beating --punching and flogging He endured --------the Blood that He shed before and being nailed to the cross --which covered sin ----He bore our Griefs which is sickness and disease ------( Isaiah 53:4; — sickness, disease )------He carried away our pain and punishment -----He was bruised for our Guilt and Iniquity ------He was chastised which purchased our well being and peace back -----and the Stripes He took from the flogging on His back purchased back our Spiritual and Physical Healing ------

Now He had to die on the Cross to seal the deal for these things to take hold ------so the Cross is very important ------and the Resurrection purchased back our eternal Life -----so the whole event is all so important ----the before beating and flogging the Cross and the Resurrection -------


Jesus said ----It is Finished ------all He came to do was accomplished -----

 

[jimkenney12]

Good question. Those are the core of the foundation of Christianity. The other parts of the foundation include community, evangelism, and the message that the Holy Mystery loves us, providing us with the means to share that message.

 

[BetteTheRed]

the message that the Holy Mystery loves us,

I think that this one is primary for me. I've listened to a quote by Winnie Vargedas, constructive & creative language: Godde loves us, we keep wandering away, and Godde keeps running after us, etc

 

[Delightful Life]

itd be fun for James Burke to do a Connections on Christianity
he would show the tangled and contingent web of events that led to Christianity

Just like life on Earth, our universe having sentient life in it, not by chance

:3


Jesus is Risen!

 

[Luce NDs]

Lighter things do rise ... thus heavy thoughts as dull and dense underfoot ... sub dude?

Intolerance and unacceptability causes much to fall under control freaks ... thus uncontrolled activities occur in the dark ...

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Just like life on Earth, our universe having sentient life in it, not by chance

Wrong!! Purely by chance, what other rational reason could there be. Do you have another universe to compare it too. We have only one universe, the one we living in, that has intelligent life in it, then it must have happened by chance. Unless of course you wish to posit an irrational reason.

 

[Delightful Life]

Wrong!! Purely by chance, what other rational reason could there be. Do you have another universe to compare it too. We have only one universe, the one we living in, that has intelligent life in it, then it must have happened by chance. Unless of course you wish to posit an irrational reason.

Pavlos Maros,

How do my words threaten you? No matter what they are, what I say, you will still be able to make your money, still enjoy a pint or 30 with friends, still laugh, love, cry when someone you love passes on...

Peace to you. And hold those you care for close to you.

 

[jimkenney12]

When scientists are unsure about there being only one universe, we need to be careful about what we claim.

 

[Carolla]

Back to OP - Where that emphasis is placed - death or resurrection - seems seminal to the difference between RC and Protestant denominations. Hence the crucified Christ hanging on crosses in all RC churches & their heavy emphasis on sin, guilt, atonement; vs empty crosses in most (all?) Protestant churches, and less emphasis on the crucifixion. And with the crucified Christ cross - emphasis seems to be individual, not so much on the sins of Empire that resulted in this cruel tortured death of a person who spoke in opposition to Empire. At least that's my take on it.

 

[Mendalla]

When scientists are unsure about there being only one universe, we need to be careful about what we claim.

But we cannot assume it either. It's a controversial, speculative idea arising from mathematics, not observation, that may not even be empirically provable. It's also a bit of a "god of the gaps" theory to explain things current theories cannot. It could go away as easily as the idea of God creating the universe 6000ish years ago if we explain the gaps it fills. If we can explain things without a multiverse, we are obligated to do so unless observations show us the existence of one. So, I would argue Pavlos is quite correct. As far as we can empirically prove, there is one universe and only one planet in it with sapient life. All else is speculation at this point.

 

[Waterfall]

Back to OP - Where that emphasis is placed - death or resurrection - seems seminal to the difference between RC and Protestant denominations. Hence the crucified Christ hanging on crosses in all RC churches & their heavy emphasis on sin, guilt, atonement; vs empty crosses in most (all?) Protestant churches, and less emphasis on the crucifixion. And with the crucified Christ cross - emphasis seems to be individual, not so much on the sins of Empire that resulted in this cruel tortured death of a person who spoke in opposition to Empire. At least that's my take on it.

I cringe everytime I see a dead Jesus hanging from a cross around someone's neck.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I cringe everytime I see a dead Jesus hanging from a cross around someone's neck.

I suspect, however, that if you'd grown up in a Catholic family, you would find it a familiar image, not a cringeworthy one.

 

[paradox3]

Some Catholics find our empty crosses quite bizarre.

 

[Waterfall]

I suspect, however, that if you'd grown up in a Catholic family, you would find it a familiar image, not a cringeworthy one.

No doubt, but I didnt. I grew up in a catholic family but not a Roman Catholic one.
To be honest I dont care for the celebration of the empty cross either...it seems a celebration of torture. Thank God he didnt die by firing squad or beheading, lol.

 

[GordW]

Back to OP - Where that emphasis is placed - death or resurrection - seems seminal to the difference between RC and Protestant denominations. Hence the crucified Christ hanging on crosses in all RC churches & their heavy emphasis on sin, guilt, atonement; vs empty crosses in most (all?) Protestant churches, and less emphasis on the crucifixion. And with the crucified Christ cross - emphasis seems to be individual, not so much on the sins of Empire that resulted in this cruel tortured death of a person who spoke in opposition to Empire. At least that's my take on it.

While Protestant churches tend to have empty crosses as opposed to a RC Crucifix I would not say the RC church is the only denomination that puts more emphasis on sin, atonement, guilt, shame. Many Protestant churches do the same.

And the focus away from the role of Empire in JEsus' death is fairly routinely ignored in many churches I think. If one chooses to focus on the cross as a substitutionary atonement.paying our debt meaning then one move easily to the understanding that the powerbrokers had no choice but were acting out a pre-ordained role. Then politics of Empire become less important to the story.

 

[Luce NDs]

But we cannot assume it either. It's a controversial, speculative idea arising from mathematics, not observation, that may not even be empirically provable. It's also a bit of a "god of the gaps" theory to explain things current theories cannot. It could go away as easily as the idea of God creating the universe 6000ish years ago if we explain the gaps it fills. If we can explain things without a multiverse, we are obligated to do so unless observations show us the existence of one. So, I would argue Pavlos is quite correct. As far as we can empirically prove, there is one universe and only one planet in it with sapient life. All else is speculation at this point.

I have a friend that has a degree in mathematics; he believes that if it follows rules of mathematics it is real and incorruptible.

He is s sure I am wrong about indeterminacy on matter like Pi being a determinate number and expressions like XY=0, where the unknow X is equivalent to something like the unknown Y without considerable reasoning ... and thus he believes me unreasonable about uncertainty theories.
Consider that if the unknown is reduced to 0 then Y may become infinite and the equation is still holding. Such stuff fits in with; "I was born in a heated place (desert) and my mother died giving me birth ... causing a great heat to be expressed by the great father. Did the mother or father ignite the white hot flames out there?

Did this start from a primary smouldering urge fr extinction? Perhaps the Palling exclusion Principle? Folk are the source of the oddest processes ... beyond thinking? Thus that was disposed ...

Then there is the problem of assumption of responsibility of sin (formal definition). Can Christ be forced to assume this as a mere essence in this world with not that weighty affiliation that we might assume was that character's job when we should have carried a share?

Is load balancing improbable given the esteem of some that they can dump on everyone related to extensive omission of intelligence? There'd be a gap in the sentient nature of power and thus corruption rumours as causing witch-hunts by the people that deny they had part in the imbalance of democracy ... balance is eternally delicate that may have claws in what's up there ... divining Universe and Cosmos. Is the Universe more confined than the greater Cos?

The resolution is sometimes difficult when with the heavier matter ... non spatial as sophisticated consideration? That may be dull and dense ... allowing something to carve the bluestones ...

 

[GordW]

No doubt, but I didnt. I grew up in a catholic family but not a Roman Catholic one.
To be honest I dont care for the celebration of the empty cross either...it seems a celebration of torture. Thank God he didnt die by firing squad or beheading, lol.

Over the years there have been people who ask if we would where a gallows on a chain around our neck. Or recently I have seen a post about a cross showing a lethal injection table. The question has been why an instrument of execution (which many of us consider judicial murder ) at all.

In the book Saving PAradise (see my notes about reading it here) the suggestion is made that the centrality of the cross as THE symbol of Christianity took many centuries to happen. And that it happened as the church became more connected to conquest and conflict.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I suspect, however, that if you'd grown up in a Catholic family, you would find it a familiar image, not a cringeworthy one.

Not just RC's.. My childhood Church of England congregation had a crucifix with a body on it.