Euthanesia to be authorized in Canada for mentally handicapped

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
I am reminded by M Meade's concept of compassion that has gone astray with the thought that if emotional control fails; "any lie will do!"

Non intelligent resolution ... divinely deviate ... Emperors claim: "do as you will!" Thus laid out as alternate conspiracy ...
 
JayneWonders said:
I feel that mental or physical should be reasons i can access but only after appropriate reviews and supports.
Click to expand...
The problem is going to be what is appropriate. Part of the holdup, as I understand it from that article I linked, is that even the psychiatrists aren't in agreement over the standard for approving MAID for a mental health case. Is there truly a way to determine if a mental health issue is "untreatable" or "incurable" given how much of psychiatry and psychology is still more art than science?

And then you hear stories like the one Northwind told about people being pressured, even subtly. If that's a problem for people who are legitimately terminal cases, what is it going to be like for people with mental or physical disabilties?

And how do you determine if someone with a mental health issue is even competent to consent to something like MAID? A severe mental illness can be grounds for invoking a PoA.

I still worry that we are essentially going to be offering suicide to people after years of programs to prevent it unless there are very clear, strict guidelines for the psychiatrists to follow in approving MAID requests.
 
I agree Jim. I have huge concerns about people with mental illness or disabilities being included in MAID. We live in a world where the dollar seems to be a major factor in health care planning. It is apparently easier to kill those who use too many resources than to provide those resources. That's appalling.
 
Northwind said:
I agree Jim. I have huge concerns about people with mental illness or disabilities being included in MAID. We live in a world where the dollar seems to be a major factor in health care planning. It is apparently easier to kill those who use too many resources than to provide those resources. That's appalling.
Click to expand...

One has to take into consideration and concern, how much the religious-scientific perspective rules that individual mind? Is there a stick or staff to measure that, given the mind is a controversial item of contention ... folk even fight to control it, whether personal or the counter form (you know; the other person's mind)!

Mortals have difficulty differentiating these ...
 

Northwind said:
I have another friend whose doctor told her about MAID when she was initially diagnosed. She felt pressured to register. She now receives regular "check-in" calls from some woman. These calls feel like pressure to her. That is not okay. She will be setting some boundaries.
Click to expand...
That is horrendously invasive of her right to privacy. I can 'sort of' understand a doctor mentioning MAID but definitely not telling someone else about her health status. I hope she tells the unknown lady to never phone or contact her again.
 
KayTheCurler said:
I hope she tells the unknown lady to never phone or contact her again.
Click to expand...

We helped her come up with a strategy. She's fine with the checking in. She doesn't like the sense that the woman seemed to be trying to fill a quota. I believe she will give the update and make sure the call doesn't go over five minutes. She's expecting another call soon.
 
Northwind said:
We helped her come up with a strategy. She's fine with the checking in. She doesn't like the sense that the woman seemed to be trying to fill a quota. I believe she will give the update and make sure the call doesn't go over five minutes. She's expecting another call soon.
Click to expand...

If I were your friend, I would simply insist on a cessation of the check up calls, letting them know that if her interest in MAID resurfaces, SHE will call THEM.
 
BetteTheRed said:
If I were your friend, I would simply insist on a cessation of the check up calls, letting them know that if her interest in MAID resurfaces, SHE will call THEM.
Click to expand...
Ditto. At least that's how I would handle it myself. Politely but sternly blowing off repeat callers that I don't need to talk to is kind of second nature for me, though, given how many cold calls I field at work from people wanting to do business with us. Making use of call blocking on my cell would not be out of the question for me, either. Perhaps she may not as comfortable with handling callers that way.
 
Six words....." She's fine with the checking in"
Maybe just not with this one, but someone that listens and would be easier for her to convey herself too?
Maybe suggest she talk to the director of these callers. A better match?
 
We suggested she report the woman for her very unprofessional and unethical behaviour. My friend is smart and just needed validation I think. She feels like she's in a tough spot. She's on the list. She hasn't been assessed. She doesn't want to be off the list and lose her chance to make a choice. She also doesn't want to be pushed into "choosing" MAID before she's ready.
 
I am confused.

What would the right path be, in her opinion?

Does she want to trigger the assessment? If so, does she know normal leadtime for assessment?

What does assessment mean? Could it be as simple as "these are the criteria that would cause me to seek" and them saying "yes, we confirm, and here are the steps when you reach that point"

I'm wondering what the process looks like
 
In Ontario, it's pretty quick, on a terminal path, anyway.

My daughter, horrifyingly, has just lost a friend to MAID, not bad, just that the friend was barely 60 (family tradition of close older women friends), and Erin was one of her three besties she chose to be with at the moment of death. Late stage cancer, no viable treatments. But she basically got immediate access to "whenever" when she entered hospice. And the date changed a few times as S rallied then failed.
 
This site seems to indicate that an assessment can set conditions under which it can be performed (or rescheduled)
This seems logical to me, as I would, if I had a prognosis indicating that I was terminal, be able to set the criteria by which I would probably want MAID, and have that pre-approval set. I would have the option to withdraw it, as well.

Anyhow, it just seems that assessment does not mean that one must then act upon MAID. it is just getting everything in writing, so it isn't an emergency assessment at a time when you least want it

Medical assistance in dying and end‑of‑life decisions support for medical professionals

Learn what physicians’ and nurse practitioners’ roles and responsibilities are with respect to MAID.This information is intended for care providers. Learn more about medical assistance in dying and end-of-life decisions for patients.
www.ontario.ca www.ontario.ca
 
JayneWonders said:
I am confused.

What would the right path be, in her opinion?

Does she want to trigger the assessment? If so, does she know normal leadtime for assessment?

What does assessment mean? Could it be as simple as "these are the criteria that would cause me to seek" and them saying "yes, we confirm, and here are the steps when you reach that point"

I'm wondering what the process looks like
Click to expand...

I don't know the specific path. There is a point where an assessment happens in order to actually get MAID. My one friend went through that. In her case it involved deciding if it could be done at her rural home. It would also presumably determine if her death is imminent.

As I've said, this pressured friend has had a terrible experience so far. Her GP told her she should sign up for MAID when she was diagnosed. While this may have been a well intentioned suggestion, it came across as pressure. She is the second friend of mine who felt pressured to register for MAID. I doubt it is unusual for someone from the MAID organization to check in. This woman asks her inappropriate questions and doesn't seem to accept that while the diagnosis is dire, my friend is feeling fine (all things considered) and is still able to maintain a good quality of life. My friend feels like the woman has some kind of quota to push people through the system. As I said, she doesn't mind if someone checks in on her. She understands that may be part of the process. The woman keeps her on the phone for 20+ minutes and then my friend feels her day is ruined. It triggers a funk for her.

Imagine getting an essentially terminal diagnosis of ovarian cancer then being told to sign up for MAID. Right now she is getting chemo and chemo is doing its thing. She can only get so many treatments though and knows that when this chemo is done she may not have more options. At that point, the disease will likely progress more quickly. She's not at that point yet.

She wants to live her life as best she can right now. She wants to be able to freely choose when to take MAID or whether she even wants it.

As for "the process to seek", that decision was essentially taken from her. An assessment would presumably determine that the person is "qualified" and to make sure the resources are available. The friend who has gone through this will be able to set the date when she is ready. Because that friend has been assessed, all she needs to do now is set the date. While she's sicker than the pressured friend, she's still muddling along and has not set a date.

This is not a black and white issue where boxes are checked and things happen. Metastatic cancer is not an automatic immediate death sentence. While the pressured friend has a not great prognosis, she is aware that even those with poor prognoses can keep living for longer than expected.
 
JayneWonders said:
Anyhow, it just seems that assessment does not mean that one must then act upon MAID. it is just getting everything in writing, so it isn't an emergency assessment at a time when you least want it
Click to expand...

Yes. That was my assessed friend's experience.

The pressured friend can't articulate under what conditions she would want to pull the plug. She's not there yet for a variety of reasons.

I am living with metastatic breast cancer. It will kill me. I am no where near the point where I would be making decisions about setting a date. I doubt I would even be assessed at this point. As I said, metastatic cancer doesn't kill you right away anymore. I met a woman five years ago who was allegedly on death's door at that point. She only died this year just before Christmas
 
I'm confused though.
Why wouldnt' she want to do the assessment, so she can set the conditions? Is it that she hasn't figured out what conditions would be?

I think the difference is, that I am thinking assessment just means "yes, I want some day to be able to take our medical health system up on MAID", or "god, no, i never want to" or "I will follow up & initiate MAID assessment at a later date. I understand that this may put me in an assessment "rush"". If " yes, I may want to" then "given the logical progression of my illness, I will ask for assistance on MAID when these conditions are met". if "god, no", then remove me from your records, and do not call me again. If "i will followup", then "you may keep my files, and I appreciate you telling me how to initiate the process again".
 
Right, I have a friend who lived for 10+ years, and her team kept finding ways to make her pain / symptoms manageable.

As i've said in the past, I definitely could articulate what would make my desire for maid with dementia to be acted upon. Sadly, that is not an option. If I was diagnosed with dementia as my father had, i would try to get an assessment, but, unlikely would be successful. I might ask for my family to send me to Europe, but, again, at that time, it is unlikely i could travel. That's f*'d. My only option would be to ask them to committ what would be considered murder.
 
JayneWonders said:
Why wouldnt' she want to do the assessment, so she can set the conditions? Is it that she hasn't figured out what conditions would be?
Click to expand...

As far as I understand she hasn't been offered a time for an assessment. That's not the issue. The issue is the woman calling to "check in" on her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top