Does Faith in God Support War and Killing Civilians?

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Waterfall

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We're all pretty well aware of the war currently happening between Israel and Gaza.
But I'm curious, how does all of this align with the Jewish faith, Christian faith and Muslim faith?
Is this a religious war to protect the temple mount or is it more political or both?
How is this justified using ones faith, when innocent civilians are used as pawns on either side?
 
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Quite frankly, I'm ashamed to say I'm part of all this, just because I claim to be Christian. How would Jews, Christians and Muslims justify their actions using their faith and holy scriptures?
And that would include Israels forced arpethied that includes one of the largest open air prisons in the world. The oppression of people.
 
How would Jews, Christians and Muslims justify their actions using their faith and holy scriptures?
Let's face it, holy scriptures have been used to justify many things. It's the root problem of using scripture as a basis for morality. There's simply too much room for interpretation. More often, scripture is used to justify the position of the person or group doing the interpreting, not to determine the morality of the situation in absolute terms. And that's not just in the Abrahamic traditions, even if it seems to be more of a problem there to us because we interact mostly with those three traditions. Scripture provides a basis for thought and discussion, not an absolute moral order, or at least that's how it should work in a diverse world.

On the situation itself, I think it was inevitable. The inherent tensions between Israel and the Palestinians and among the Palestinians themselves (e.g. between the militant Hamas and Hezbollah and the less militant Palestinian Authority) had to snap sooner or later since nothing was being done to relieve those tensions. I think global geopolitics probably has more to do with it than religion. Iran is champing at the bit to be seen as important and Hezbollah and Hamas are their proxies to some degree. That this might derail the Israel-Saudi Arabia talks is probably gravy rather than the reason, but it certainly can't be discounted as a factor. Saudi Arabia making peace with Israel under US guidance would definitely set the Saudis up as the dominant Muslim player in the region.

Whatever the reason for this latest outbreak of violence, it's just another tragic chapter in a story that needs to end someday. In my lifetime, we have seen both war (Six Day War, Yom Kippur War) and peace (Camp David Accords, Oslo Accord) in the region so we know that both are possible. We just need more of the latter. A successful two-state solution accepted by both the mainstream of the Palestinians (Hamas and Hezbollah likely won't accept any solution that acknowledges Israel's right to exist, but the more moderate Authority could) and the Israelis is probably the fix for a lot of it. Too bad neither side seems interested these days, even prior to Saturday's events.

I was actually looking at a tour of the region (Egypt, Jordan, Israel) for next year's big vacation. Probably not happening now unless things quiet down real fast.
 
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And I'm also ashamed of our Canadian govt for not realizing the complexity of the situation on both sides rather than mindlessly volunteer to throw our support only behind Israel instead of being fair and encourage peaceful resolution.
Trudeau is in a tough spot. The Jewish-Canadian lobby, while not as strong as their US counterparts, is pretty strong. And anything seen as putting us out of line with the US will be used against him by the CPC in 2025 or whenever we go to the polls. So he is taking the easy, safe route, or so it appears. That does not make it right, but I see the political rationale. Once again, he is being a sheep rather than a shepherd.
 
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Let's face it, holy scriptures have been used to justify many things. It's the root problem of using scripture as a basis for morality. There's simply too much room for interpretation. More often, scripture is used to justify the position of the person or group doing the interpreting, not to determine the morality of the situation in absolute terms. And that's not just in the Abrahamic traditions, even if it seems to be more of a problem there to us because we interact mostly with those three traditions. Scripture provides a basis for thought and discussion, not an absolute moral order, or at least that's how it should work in a diverse world.
Yet scripture in the Muslim faith is very specific that civilian women, children and the elderly are not to be included in any war. Mohammad rules of war also.
Christianity tells us to live our enemy and be good Samaritans.
And if one wants to avoid scriptures the Geneva convention bans the use of civilians as targets for terrorism. Apparently not worth the paper it's written on and ditto for the Bible and Quran.
 
Yet scripture in the Muslim faith is very specific that women, children and the elderly are not to be included in any war.
Christianity tells us to live our enemy and be good Samaritans.
And if one wants to avoid scriptures the Geneva convention bans the use of civilians as targets for terrorism. Apparently not worth the paper it's written on.
The problem is that the Geneva Convention is not subscribed to by anyone other than state actors, some of whom don't even exist anymore. And even those are increasingly treating the conventions as optional. Groups like Hamas do not see themselves as under any obligation since they neither signed nor accepted the terms.

Yet scripture in the Muslim faith is very specific that women, children and the elderly are not to be included in any war.
Christianity tells us to live our enemy and be good Samaritans.
Which just makes my point. Your interpretation is your interpretation and others find other parts of the scripture to use in support of their aggression and violence. The crusaders happily massacred even other Christians while claiming religious authority so clearly there's some basis for disagreeing with your interpretation of that faith. Not to mention inquisitions and witch hunts.

Lets face it, religious authority has failed miserable at creating a peaceful world and secular philosophy isn't working terribly well, either. We are ultimately up against human nature, I think. We are territorial creatures who have taken that territoriality beyond geographical spaces to philosophical, political, and religious ones. No specific religious tradition can solve that problem because they are mostly part of the problem. Same with political philosophies.

I don't know how we can win this battle against our own nature, to be honest, but somehow there has to be a way. I just don't think citing scripture helps at this point because scripture is too tied up with how people interpret and understand it.
 
Let's face it, holy scriptures have been used to justify many things. It's the root problem of using scripture as a basis for morality. There's simply too much room for interpretation. More often, scripture is used to justify the position of the person or group doing the interpreting, not to determine the morality of the situation in absolute terms. And that's not just in the Abrahamic traditions, even if it seems to be more of a problem there to us because we interact mostly with those three traditions. Scripture provides a basis for thought and discussion, not an absolute moral order, or at least that's how it should work in a diverse world.
Yet scripture in the Muslim faith is very specific that women, children and the elderly are not to be included in any war.
Christianity tells us to live our enemy and be good Samaritans.
And if one wants to avoid scriptures the Geneva convention bans the use of civilians as targets for terrorism. Apparently not worth the paper it's written on
Trudeau is in a tough spot. The Jewish-Canadian lobby, while not as strong as their US counterparts, is pretty strong. And anything seen as putting us out of line with the US will be used against him by the CPC in 2025 or whenever we go to the polls. So he is taking the easy, safe route, or so it appears. That does not make it right, but I see the political rationale. Once again, he is being a sheep rather than a shepherd.
Yes, I agree, he's playing it safe....damned if he does or doesn't....but a wise leader should offer solutions objectively and fair for all. Both sides have to sacrifice something.
 
but a wise leader should offer solutions objectively and fair for all
Bolded words are the key. Empirical evidence of the past 8 years or so suggests Trudeau does not fill that bill. Neither, sadly, dos Poilievre or Singh. In fact, I doubt that a truly wise leader could actually get elected in most Western countries today. They simply would not buy into the polarization and politics of division that we see here, in the US, and some parts of Europe (the UK is almost as bad as the US nowadays). Even in Asia, India has a bad case of it.
 
The problem is that the Geneva Convention is not subscribed to by anyone other than state actors, some of whom don't even exist anymore. And even those are increasingly treating the conventions as optional. Groups like Hamas do not see themselves as under any obligation since they neither signed nor accepted the terms.


Which just makes my point. Your interpretation is your interpretation and others find other parts of the scripture to use in support of their aggression and violence. The crusaders happily massacred even other Christians while claiming religious authority so clearly there's some basis for disagreeing with your interpretation of that faith. Not to mention inquisitions and witch hunts.

Lets face it, religious authority has failed miserable at creating a peaceful world and secular philosophy isn't working terribly well, either. We are ultimately up against human nature, I think. We are territorial creatures who have taken that territoriality beyond geographical spaces to philosophical, political, and religious ones. No specific religious tradition can solve that problem because they are mostly part of the problem. Same with political philosophies.

I don't know how we can win this battle against our own nature, to be honest, but somehow there has to be a way. I just don't think citing scripture helps at this point because scripture is too tied up with how people interpret and understand it.
Yet we have to acknowledge scripture, it's why the average North American Christian stands with Israel and Muslins stand their reasonings against Israel.
Wars are allowed but only with armies.
Israel cannot cease to exist according to Christianity's book.
 
Bolded words are the key. Empirical evidence of the past 8 years or so suggests Trudeau does not fill that bill. Neither, sadly, dos Poilievre or Singh. In fact, I doubt that a truly wise leader could actually get elected in most Western countries today. They simply would not buy into the polarization and politics of division that we see here, in the US, and some parts of Europe (the UK is almost as bad as the US nowadays). Even in Asia, India has a bad case of it.
Exactly! Perhaps just an outspoken voice that is wise, not necessarily in politics? Gasp...from a church leader? Humanitarian organization? Possibly Israel itself? Or Gaza?
 
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Yet we have to acknowledge scripture, it's why the average North American Christian stands with Israel and Muslins stand their reasonings against Israel.
Wars are allowed but only with armies.
Israel cannot cease to exist according to Christianity's book.
Acknowledge it, yes. But expect to find a solution in it? Not so much. Too much of the problem is people using scripture to justify actions. Time to look at a harm reduction strategy, to say that people matter more than old books so how do we stop people from being harmed by these insane wars and terrorist actions. And people citing scripture would probably stand in the way of that, citing their scriptures to show why their cause is better and people A or B don't actually matter as much as they do.

And let's not forget that the Christian Right only supports Israel's right to exist because rebuilding the temple is part of the prophecies for the end times. There's a significant faction in that group who are anti-Semitic and actually believe the Jews are doomed and are just using Israel to bring about their version of future history. For the temple to be rebuilt, they would have to destroy the Muslim sites currently on the The Mount, something that they would happily do even knowing that doing so would likely bring about the worst war the Middle East has seen in modern times. That's hardly an attitude that helps in any situation. And they cite scripture to support it.
 
Acknowledge it, yes. But expect to find a solution in it? Not so much. Too much of the problem is people using scripture to justify actions. Time to look at a harm reduction strategy, to say that people matter more than old books so how do we stop people from being harmed by these insane wars and terrorist actions. And people citing scripture would probably stand in the way of that, citing their scriptures to show why their cause is better and people A or B don't actually matter as much as they do.

And let's not forget that the Christian Right only supports Israel's right to exist because rebuilding the temple is part of the prophecies for the end times. There's a significant faction in that group who are anti-Semitic and actually believe the Jews are doomed and are just using Israel to bring about their version of future history. For the temple to be rebuilt, they would have to destroy the Muslim sites currently on the The Mount, something that they would happily do even knowing that doing so would likely bring about the worst war the Middle East has seen in modern times. That's hardly an attitude that helps in any situation. And they cite scripture to support it.
Scripture is always used as the underlying reasoning for the general population and politicians use this to secure conquests leading to acquiring the spoils of wars to increase power.
But most of us know this....and blindly accept this while all the while admiring nations that are less powerful but great....we're losing that card.
 
Trudeau is in a tough spot. The Jewish-Canadian lobby, while not as strong as their US counterparts, is pretty strong. And anything seen as putting us out of line with the US will be used against him by the CPC in 2025 or whenever we go to the polls. So he is taking the easy, safe route, or so it appears. That does not make it right, but I see the political rationale. Once again, he is being a sheep rather than a shepherd.
Mayor Sohi in Edmonton put out a Tweet (or an X or whatever we call them these days) that named attacks on civilians in both Israel and GAza as horrific. Jewish community members in Edmonton were not impressed. Apparently all Israel was doing was acting in self-defence while Hamas was purely committing war crimes (neither statement is totally true IMO)
 
Mayor Sohi in Edmonton put out a Tweet (or an X or whatever we call them these days) that named attacks on civilians in both Israel and GAza as horrific. Jewish community members in Edmonton were not impressed. Apparently all Israel was doing was acting in self-defence while Hamas was purely committing war crimes (neither statement is totally true IMO)
the bias shown is abhorrent to me. Israelis 'neutralize threats' - they never kill or murder anyone - those words are reserved for the 'terrorists' of Palestine. Many are suffering in both nations and looks like it will be getting worse - moreso for the Palestinians. Israelis send a text for people to vacate a few minutes before some strikes - vacate to where?? And when infrastructure is damaged how to receive such notices? Seems not to matter - they've been 'good guys' and given notice no matter how irrelevant.

Yes - I understand the issues are longstanding and complex. I know of people important to my friends who are on both sides of the Gaza & West Bank borders. Perhaps we need to demonstrate for peace, not for either of the nations or their actions of war. Yes, yes ... naive.
 
the bias shown is abhorrent to me. Israelis 'neutralize threats' - they never kill or murder anyone - those words are reserved for the 'terrorists' of Palestine. Many are suffering in both nations and looks like it will be getting worse - moreso for the Palestinians. Israelis send a text for people to vacate a few minutes before some strikes - vacate to where?? And when infrastructure is damaged how to receive such notices? Seems not to matter - they've been 'good guys' and given notice no matter how irrelevant.

Yes - I understand the issues are longstanding and complex. I know of people important to my friends who are on both sides of the Gaza & West Bank borders. Perhaps we need to demonstrate for peace, not for either of the nations or their actions of war. Yes, yes ... naive.
If that's naive, then I'm all in. At least talking about it, will open up different aspects to this war, some may not have considered.
 
Mayor Sohi in Edmonton put out a Tweet (or an X or whatever we call them these days) that named attacks on civilians in both Israel and GAza as horrific. Jewish community members in Edmonton were not impressed. Apparently all Israel was doing was acting in self-defence while Hamas was purely committing war crimes (neither statement is totally true IMO)
To Palestinians, Hamas looks like a liberator, to Israel they're terrorists.
To Hamas Israel shouldn't exist and could care less if to achieve this, Palestinians suffer too.
 
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