Christianity and Climate change

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dreamerman

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I might be comparing oranges to apples here but I think there can be a correlation between the two. What I am suggesting is that the more conservative brand of Christianity tend to view global warming or climate change being somewhat man-made as a hoax. While the more liberal minded brand of Christianity tend to view climate change as real and humans are partly to blame for it. This is just my opinion of course although there could be some stats done somewhere that could confirm this. I also find those who say they are the true Christians are the ones to tell ministers they got it wrong and need to read the Bible the right way which of course is their way. Now take climate change, why is it that those who bark the loudest about climate change being a hoax try to discredit the experts in the field as being green zombies? What are your thoughts on this. Maybe their not related.
 

Mendalla

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Conservative Evangelical Christianity, at least in North American, is rather tied up with prosperity gospel and the notion that capitalism is ordained by God. It is rather like the bastard child of Billy Graham and Ayn Rand. Plus, of course, they also tend towards the dominion view of man's place in Nature and believe that it's somewhat irrelevant what happens to the world because Jesus is coming back soon anyhow which will change everything. Therefore, they tend to take the position that anything mandating or justifying government intervention in an economic matter as being suspect or un-Christian and tend to not care too much about green concerns in general.

The liberal/progressive Christians, IME, tend more towards a stewardship view of the world, in which we are responsible for doing God's work of caring for each other and the world. Therefore, green concerns figure higher on their agenda and they are not averse to acting against economic interests when social values or the environment conflict with them.

At least that's what I see happening. UUs, not surprisingly, tend to end up allied with the latter more so than the former.
 

revjohn

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dreamerman said:
What I am suggesting is that the more conservative brand of Christianity tend to view global warming or climate change being somewhat man-made as a hoax.
I am not confident that this is actually true. I think it may be more stereotype than reality. One interesting element would be how this plays out north and south of the 49th parallel.

If we set the context in the United States it looks like a certain flavour of conservative is anti-climate change. If you look close enough you will also detect traces of anti-intellectualism and anti-institutionalism. There are other coservative flavours to consider. Evangelicals in the US are increasingly paying attention to climate change and other "social justice" issues.

It is a convenient political ploy to try and place people in easily identifiable camps so conservatives who play political games are very interested in creating conservative/liberal distinctions that generally do not hold true.

It happens the same way in Canada. Conservatives of a more fundamentalist flavour differ from conservatives of a more evangelical flavour and the same political ploy of who is the true conservative are also at play.

Take the American Liberal and place them beside the Canadian Conservative and you will find it a challenge to continue to identify the Liberal as liberal and the Conservative as conservative.

dreamerman said:
I also find those who say they are the true Christians are the ones to tell ministers they got it wrong and need to read the Bible the right way which of course is their way.


It is not unusual for Christians of a more liberal bent and Christians of a more conservative bent to suggest that the other is biblically illiterate. Typically what is happening when that goes on is one thinks that the other is illiterate with respect to biblical content and the other thinks that the first is illiterate with respect to biblical context.
 
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Mendalla

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One thought I have is that "conservative" is probably too broad a term here. As RevJohn suggests, it is really the US (and their Canadian allies) evangelical fundamentalist crowd that we are talking about which is really only one segment of "conservative" Christianity. A conservative Catholic is not the same as a conservative Protestant is not the same as a conservative ... you get it. "Conservative" really just means hewing to a traditional understanding of Christian faith and values in some way, making it rather too broad a term.
 

dreamerman

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Well let us take a look at the tar sands as an example. Have you noticed that it is usually referred to as the oil sands today rather than the tar sands? Ezra Levant likes to refer to the tar sands as ethical oil. Now I don't know what religious beliefs Ezra has but he is definitely in favour of using the tar sands as much as possible. I think he is a big fan of Harper's Conservatives. Then you have the other so called reporters for Sun Media such as Brian Lilley, Michael Coren, Gunter and Goldstein who think anyone having serious concerns of tar sands oil going east by pipeline as left winged nut jobs and Harper haters. Bring up green energy and you will be discredited as a green zombie.
 

revsdd

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Well let us take a look at the tar sands as an example. Have you noticed that it is usually referred to as the oil sands today rather than the tar sands? Ezra Levant likes to refer to the tar sands as ethical oil. Now I don't know what religious beliefs Ezra has but he is definitely in favour of using the tar sands as much as possible. I think he is a big fan of Harper's Conservatives. Then you have the other so called reporters for Sun Media such as Brian Lilley, Michael Coren, Gunter and Goldstein who think anyone having serious concerns of tar sands oil going east by pipeline as left winged nut jobs and Harper haters. Bring up green energy and you will be discredited as a green zombie.
I believe Ezra Levant's religious background is Jewish, although what the current state of his religious beliefs are I don't know,

I have to say, though, that I'm not at all sure where you're going with this thread, dreamerman. You say "take the tar sands as an example ..." As an example of what? Then you cite Ezra Levant and Fox ... er ... Sun Media as examples of ... what? They're an extremely and outrageously right-wing "news" (loosely) organization, who seek to outrage and entertain more than to inform. Are you saying they represent the "conservative" viewpoint? That's ridiculous. While I would think of myself as centre-leaning a little left politically, I know lots of folks who think of themselves as conservative who find Sun and Ezra a source of entertainment at best, or embarrassment at worst. It seems to me that you're painting with broad brush strokes that really aren't making any obvious point.
 

revjohn

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dreamerman said:
Well let us take a look at the tar sands as an example. Have you noticed that it is usually referred to as the oil sands today rather than the tar sands?
A rose by any other name . . . .

dreamerman said:
Ezra Levant
Identifies as Jewish. I don't know how observant or conservative his Judaism is or isn't. Definitely not conservative Christian.

dreamerman said:
Brian Lilley
Not sure about his religious identity. Certainly leans towards conservative political ideologies. Has a hate on for the CBC.

dreamerman said:
Michael Coren
Definitely conservatve Roman Catholic. Which muddies the waters somewhat. A conservative Roman Catholic and a conservative Christian Fundamentalist are, at best, frenemies. They will tag team on certain political issues (same sex marriage or abortion for examples) theologically both are convinced that the other has been deceived by Satan.

dreamerman said:
Gunter (Lorne I presume?)
Not sure about his religious identity either. Definitely leans toward conservative political ideology.

dreamerman said:
Goldstein (Lorrie I presume?
Self identifies as Jewish. As with Levant I have no idea how observant/conservative his Judaism is.

All of the five are clearly Canadian political conservatives yet only three of the five appear comfortable sharing their theological leanings. Of those three two are Jewish and all things considered I expect that within Judaism they would be on the more liberal end of the spectrum. Michael Coren is the only identified Christian and he is very proudly Roman Catholic which truly is a different animal from conservative Christians be they evangelical or more fundamentalist.

Theologically speaking while Michael has respect and sympathy for Judaism he thinks that they are wrong and Roman Catholicism is right.

I don't think you are even close to comparing apples to oranges to be completely honest.

The only real connecting point for these five are their political leanings. I've never heard Michael Coren ever make an argument as to how his conservative Roman Catholicism forces him to be politically conservative as well.

Theologically speaking I don't fit the fundamentalist profile (I believe in fundamentals but not fundamentalism) and most charismatic evangelicals would sooner slit their wrists than admit that theologically I am conservative. Of course that is because I tend towards Calvinism which they are generally ignorant about but disagree with anyway and they tend towards Arminianism.

Politically I am probably more of a centrist than a conservative.
 

Jon71

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I consider myself to be a liberal Christian and I definitely accept God's command to be a steward of the Earth.
 

Jae

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I consider myself to be a liberal Christian and I definitely accept God's command to be a steward of the Earth.
I consider myself to be a conservative evangelical Christian - and I join you in that acceptance.
 

Hermann

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"Grey are all theories, but GREEN is the Tree of Life."

-Goethe
 

dreamerman

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I believe Ezra Levant's religious background is Jewish, although what the current state of his religious beliefs are I don't know,

I have to say, though, that I'm not at all sure where you're going with this thread, dreamerman. You say "take the tar sands as an example ..." As an example of what? Then you cite Ezra Levant and Fox ... er ... Sun Media as examples of ... what? They're an extremely and outrageously right-wing "news" (loosely) organization, who seek to outrage and entertain more than to inform. Are you saying they represent the "conservative" viewpoint? That's ridiculous. While I would think of myself as centre-leaning a little left politically, I know lots of folks who think of themselves as conservative who find Sun and Ezra a source of entertainment at best, or embarrassment at worst. It seems to me that you're painting with broad brush strokes that really aren't making any obvious point.
You are right revsdd. I was painting with a wide brush on this one. I am still wondering myself where I wanted to go with this thread. Have you ever created a thread or responded to someone and think boy that didn't really make any sense? As for the journalists at Sun Media I guess I too read them for the entertainment value but at the same time it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I guess I should just stop reading the columns of those I mentioned in my post. Still there are some people out there who take their articles as truth without questioning their motives. So again I really don't have a point just rambling on.
 
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dreamerman

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A rose by any other name . . . .



Identifies as Jewish. I don't know how observant or conservative his Judaism is or isn't. Definitely not conservative Christian.



Not sure about his religious identity. Certainly leans towards conservative political ideologies. Has a hate on for the CBC.



Definitely conservatve Roman Catholic. Which muddies the waters somewhat. A conservative Roman Catholic and a conservative Christian Fundamentalist are, at best, frenemies. They will tag team on certain political issues (same sex marriage or abortion for examples) theologically both are convinced that the other has been deceived by Satan.



Not sure about his religious identity either. Definitely leans toward conservative political ideology.



Self identifies as Jewish. As with Levant I have no idea how observant/conservative his Judaism is.

All of the five are clearly Canadian political conservatives yet only three of the five appear comfortable sharing their theological leanings. Of those three two are Jewish and all things considered I expect that within Judaism they would be on the more liberal end of the spectrum. Michael Coren is the only identified Christian and he is very proudly Roman Catholic which truly is a different animal from conservative Christians be they evangelical or more fundamentalist.

Theologically speaking while Michael has respect and sympathy for Judaism he thinks that they are wrong and Roman Catholicism is right.

I don't think you are even close to comparing apples to oranges to be completely honest.

The only real connecting point for these five are their political leanings. I've never heard Michael Coren ever make an argument as to how his conservative Roman Catholicism forces him to be politically conservative as well.

Theologically speaking I don't fit the fundamentalist profile (I believe in fundamentals but not fundamentalism) and most charismatic evangelicals would sooner slit their wrists than admit that theologically I am conservative. Of course that is because I tend towards Calvinism which they are generally ignorant about but disagree with anyway and they tend towards Arminianism.

Politically I am probably more of a centrist than a conservative.
Thanks for your reply revjohn. You made more sense of what I was trying to get at than I could have done. Like revsdd said in his reply to me what is your point. I am still wondering what my point was of creating this thread.
 

Jae

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You are right revsdd. I was painting with a wide brush on this one. I am still wondering myself where I wanted to go with this thread. Have you ever created a thread or responded to someone and think boy that didn't really make any sense? As for the journalists at Sun Media I guess I too read them for the entertainment value but at the same time it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I guess I should just stop reading the columns of those I mentioned in my post. Still there are some people out there who take their articles as truth without questioning their motives. So again I really don't have a point just rambling on.
The sad part about your rambling on was your indulging in stereotypes. None of the evangelicals who I know are pro-consumerism at the expense of the environment.
 

dreamerman

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The sad part about your rambling on was your indulging in stereotypes. None of the evangelicals who I know are pro-consumerism at the expense of the environment.
I guess I should have said some fundamentalist evangelical Christians such as those who like to believe in the prosperity gospel. If you are prospering financially and you believe god is the one behind your prosperity does it matter what affect it has on the planet or the life on it.
 

Jae

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I guess I should have said some fundamentalist evangelical Christians such as those who like to believe in the prosperity gospel. If you are prospering financially and you believe god is the one behind your prosperity does it matter what affect it has on the planet or the life on it.
Believing that God is going to make them rich because they're Christians doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care about the environment. Indeed - if they believe that obeying God brings prosperity - they may be very concerned with environmental stewardship. It should be noted - of course - that not every fundamentalist and evangelical believe in the prosperity gospel.
 

Inannawhimsey

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dreamerman, if you haven't already, you might want to check out steven pinker's book The Blank Slate...it might give you data and places for you to do more research?

also, people like George Lakoff & Michael Shermer have books out where they have data on people's beliefs affecting their behaviour ('conservatives' react this way, 'liberals' react that way...)

also this, by peter watts, taking a look at research on how liberals & conservatives react differently to disgusting images http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=5348 and also a previous entry in his blog http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=184 aboot reaction to threats

as always, have fun

and so it goes
 
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Climate change is the cause of this apocalyptic event. There are a lot of (Right wing fundamentalist) Christians who welcome "signs" like this and therefore don't want to stop the damage. That's why the same people don't support climate change mitigating policies.

 
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