Centrist theology

[Mystic]

As usual UCCan posters will say practically anything to avoid the hard work of engaging with an exemplar of what they are discussing--in this case the centrist video posted by Father Richard Rohr. Richard Rohr believes in the Trinity and, more importantly, demonstrates its practical relevance and believes in powerful mysticism in experiencing the divine through workshops and monastic practice of contemplative prayer; and yet, his theology is otherwise so progressive that it gets him in trouble with other Franciscans.

 

[WC2Mods]

As usual UCCan posters will say practically anything to avoid the hard work of engaging with an exemplar of what they are discussing--

Strike One.

 

[Mendalla]

in this case the centrist video posted by Father Richard Rohr. Richard Rohr believes in the Trinity and, more importantly, demonstrates its practical relevance and believes in powerful mysticism in experiencing the divine through workshops and monastic practice of contemplative prayer; and yet, his theology is otherwise so progressive that it gets him in trouble with other Franciscans.

I used to listen to his podcast. Interesting guy. Little bit surprised that he's not getting more grief from the Vatican given some of his progressive views. His love of the Enneagram (a New Age-y tool for evaluating personality) kind of put me off eventually but he's a good, solid spokesperson for the contemplative end of things.

 

[Waterfall]

Strike One.

Seriously? Please don't degrade a grown man or woman's ability to defend themself on this forum.

 

[Mendalla]

Seriously? Please don't degrade a grown man or woman's ability to defend themself on this forum.

If you read their earlier warning in the thread, you would know this is following up that warning, not just a response to this post.

 

[paradox3]

I used to listen to his podcast. Interesting guy. Little bit surprised that he's not getting more grief from the Vatican given some of his progressive views. His love of the Enneagram (a New Age-y tool for evaluating personality) kind of put me off eventually but he's a good, solid spokesperson for the contemplative end of things.

He has received some pushback in Catholic circles. But he had a very positive meeting with Pope Francis in July 2022.

I was.just reading that he identifies as a Panentheist. Many of us, I think, were first introduced to these ideas on the original WC.

 

[Carolla]

I often listen to or read messages from Rohr's Centre for Action & Contemplation, many of which I find to be thought provoking or an opportunity to deepen my thinking. I do notice that I'm using the word 'thinking & thought' a fair bit - but I suppose with internet, it's mostly, read or listen, then reflect and possibly experience. I don't have much need to attach labels - I take what resonates and leave the rest for others who may perceive things differently than I.

 

[paradox3]

I encountered some of Rohr's material in a study group at church with a previous minister. This particular minister had a very deep, contemplative approach to spirituality.

 

[Mendalla]

I actually forget how I first encountered Rohr. I know The Liturgists are fans but I did not get into them until after my time listening to his podcast so maybe Homebrewed Christianity? In fact both The Liturgists and Tripp Fuller of Homebrewed also represent progressive theologies that also have some traditional elements, esp. around mysticism and experience. I understand from things he has said that Tripp actually got some grief at process hotbed Claremont, where he did his doctorate, due to some of his more traditional language and leanings. He is a PK and his father is Southern Baptist so he was raised in a much more traditional environment.

 

[paradox3]

If you read their earlier warning in the thread, you would know this is following up that warning, not just a response to this post.

The mods have indicated they received several reports about his posting style. I will admit to using the Report button myself. I asked them to review a couple of posts in the context of this entire thread.

There are times a topic starter can influence how things go on a thread. In this case (as the original poster) I felt it was getting out of hand. Particularly since I was the target of some of the remarks in question.

I hope we can carry on with this interesting discussion

 

[paradox3]

I actually forget how I first encountered Rohr. I know The Liturgists are fans but I did not get into them until after my time listening to his podcast so maybe Homebrewed Christianity? In fact both The Liturgists and Tripp Fuller of Homebrewed also represent progressive theologies that also have some traditional elements, esp. around mysticism and experience.

Was just about to ask if anyone knew of similar writers or podcasts.

 

[Mendalla]

Was just about to ask if anyone knew of similar writers or podcasts.

Tripp is definitely an acquired taste. He can go off long, rambling tirades full of theological language at times, leaving his poor guests just kind of sitting there listening. OTOH, when he has a guest who he is really interested in or who can hold their own with him, like Thomas Oord, his preachiness can turn into an asset. But HBC is very much a theology podcast so can get "technical" at times for sure, esp. when he gets someone like Philip Clayton, his thesis supervisor, on.

The Liturgists are much more down to Earth, less about theology and more about practice, but I found their heavy focus on deconstruction, something that is long in the past for me, not especially helpful so I kind of wandered off after a while, both from the podcast and their forums on Discourse.

 

[Waterfall]

If you read their earlier warning in the thread, you would know this is following up that warning, not just a response to this post.

I read it, my comment stands.

 

[jimkenney12]

When he asked me for specifics, i provided some. He never responded. Many of his responses seemed to be to his preconceived ideas about us and less to the actual posts being made. While he has many interesting points to provide to discussions, he seems handicapped by anger or resentment. If he has really left, I hope he has another community where he can engage in the same level of debate. I do not understand why he persisted in attacking Paradox 3.

 

[Carolla]

Was just about to ask if anyone knew of similar writers or podcasts.

I have listened to a couple of Tripp Fuller podcast ... variable response from me.
Recently I've listened to a couple of the Igniting Imagination podcasts - most recently this one - The Spiritually Awakened Brain
There is also an interesting series with Brian McLaren - Learning How to See - associated with Rohr's Centre for Action & Contemplation.
Both of these series are on the free version of Spotify.

 

[Luce NDs]

Was just about to ask if anyone knew of similar writers or podcasts.

I have had the spectrum of interactions with several different in-depth scholars of the ancient texts from all sources, many of them Catholic. Their very Cat holism has set them apart from the protocol of the common prayers and exponents to allow looking deeper into such texts in search of the pathae of that period of time gone by ... resembling a alien shoe or other vessel! In examination of such ancient texts it appears that many are seized by protocol and not that the depth of ego makes one aware of in the narrative. I found this particularly so in some partakers of epistemology and thereof that allowed them to keep an open heart and psyche (sol-mined), but one has to appreciate a lot of alien expressions and texts and be a bit fluid with it as in neuroplasty functions. That is to say to allow the soul to adjust to the context of justice as balanced and not leaning towards winners as folk not to be named in the fantasy of the Shadowlands.

This is a domain not to be seen without those carrying a gentle light and not trying to set the world on fire ... know what I mean? No! ... this is not often the case in the protocol of avoiding the tree of knowledge as it is green and growing ... another intangible icon! Gnostic matters ... doesn't adhere to hard surfaces ...

Yesterday, we attended a funeral of a friend who attended to children in particular that were afflicted by brute parenting functions, including aboriginal youngsters of all shades and ages. These afflictions are sometimes referred to as psyche stress (or even PTSD) that is ignored or denied by administration so as not to be a bother to ordinary people without sensations for the deposed and denied ... contrary to guidelines of Christian justice, mercy and humility. The presiding official referred to the deceased as a gentle chit disturber. Some people with lack of meme-son ... potentially would be immune to such commentary. Then Dr J Dourley would have tended to class this into a zone of the near pathological in a psyche reflection. That is to say a person blinded by darkness perhaps many of us would not be sensitive too. Then this Catholoc Jungian would have been observed by his own community as a bit odd like CS Lewis on the matter of fantasies and Shadowlands ... ensuring the separations, bifurcations and divining continues on ... asexual reproduction all in a hard place ... it is hinted at that you can't get there from a hard stance ... the thing is initiated internally, some say innate so we are generally unconscious when it occurs in a storm!

Poorly understood as a consequence ... if only to satisfy those that wish not to know when they are screwed up ... especially in their darker positions!

 

[Luce NDs]

Do you feel when getting close to the central issue of a story, legend, myth, etc. that the meaning of the narrative begins to darken and fade? Might this be where the point of it rests ... a bit seized by the input of hoo mons? Alas .... such things are directed to remain ineffable because of the leaders sensitivity to cynicism and not truth!

Some ancient philosopher said that things in the psyche (an abstract form) are inverse to the things of physical reality. It may have been Plato's friends speaking of dark voids where things are done secretly as when in a rabbit hole and then another said that one should know (following the facts) and a forerunner of Hippocrates said to observe only ... do not get into it! Here mortal power fail and the fallacy begins ... IT doth rein rite? After that the fragrance ... thus that sharpening sense ... especially after the flat out heat and fires erupt like Ba'alm ... in Spain exemplary Ca Jones ... the bull folds!

Unlike Trump the cards are all played nothing laying like Dante ... face down impression? Know when to hold "M"! So much to gather from the great gambler ... about the train wreck ... everything goes into the Wadi ... gulch, dry wash, large grinder, etc. Ribbons are generated ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

I do not understand why he persisted in attacking Paradox 3.

I do. Berserk is deeply misogynist. He'll go off on men, but he seems to really delight in hounding women.

I have not met this Berserk person in real life, but I will share a short story of the only person I ever met who had appeared to have no redeeming characteristics. Little guy, mature student in the jewellery design program. Smoked like a chimney and stank like it; his 'white' hair was yellowed with it. He had no kind word for anyone ever. Griped, moaned, bitched about his victim status. Voice was horrible. He had a wooden leg, I don't even know why. He was a thief, indiscriminately pinching both materials and ideas. Complete lack of talent, or energy or commitment. No friends, people would visibly change direction to avoid him. Drove this frightening car that rattled around reeking of gasoline and misplaced exhaust. One day he was trying to use the darkroom, a bunch of us were standing outside of the studio door, smoking, and he couldn't get the door closed because his leg was in the way. He was slamming the door more and more angrily on his wooden leg, and we were just wetting ourselves laughing.

The lesson was memorable. I was equally horrified at the depths of our callousness and at the realization that we truly are mirrors, as humans. We are what we give, and if we give nothing, that's what we'll ultimately get.

 

[jimkenney12]

I do not understand misogyny though I recognize it. It seems many bullies are misogynist, possibly because they expect women to be weak and get angry when they are not. It also goes with grasping at male privilege. It is unfortunate that his mystical experiences were not the kind that infused compassion and love or even sufficient confidence that he would not need to attack people with a different point of view. It is strange his experiences did not help him trust the Holy Mystery enough to realize that preaching like mine could not pose a threat to doneone else's salvation.

 

[paradox3]

I don't find much value for myself in speculating about him.

I can appreciate that others may need to discuss what happened and I am fine with that.