• On Tuesday, November 24, the site will be down for c. 30 minutes sometime between 8pm and 10pm. That's about as precise a time as I can give. Our host is upgrading some of the software that underlies the site.

Capitalism or Socialism?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

GeoFee

I am who I am becoming...
Messages
4,215
Reaction score
2,706
Listening to other perspectives presented here I am sensing that human being may be best served by a balanced relationship of socialism and capitalism. Each offering opportunity for personal and collective well being.
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Messages
17,959
Reaction score
7,968
Assuming that we might all agree that capitalism REQUIRES the charging of interest on loans. Also that Jesus was Jewish, a religion which believed then, at least, that while they could not charge interest of those who shared their religion, charging interest to Gentiles was acceptable.

Would focusing on those two assumptions change your opinion of "capitalism" versus other systems?
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Messages
7,593
Reaction score
1,640
Was the mission of Jesus to support/institutionalize the religion he was born into or to deinstitutionalize/reform it?
 
Last edited:

Ritafee

Being Human
Messages
7,593
Reaction score
1,640
“The fact that Jesus weeps and that he is moved in spirit and troubled contrasts remarkably with the dominant culture. That is not the way of power, and it is scarcely the way among those who intend to maintain firm social control. But in [John 11:33-35] Jesus is engaged not in social control but in dismantling the power of death, and he does so by submitting himself to the pain and grief present in the situation, the very pain and grief that the dominant society must deny.”
― Walter Brueggemann, quote from The Prophetic Imagination
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Messages
7,593
Reaction score
1,640
Assuming that we might all agree that capitalism REQUIRES the charging of interest on loans.
Money becomes necessary when the range of our gifts must extend beyond the people we know personally.

Decentralized gift networks gave way to centralized systems of redistribution, with the 'temple/bank' as the hub.

Contributions became forced and quantified, and outward disbursement became unequal.

On the one hand money is properly a token of gratitude and trust, an agent of the meeting of gifts and needs.

As such it should make us all richer.

Yet it does not.

Instead, it has brought insecurity, poverty, and the liquidation of our cultural and natural commons.

Why?

Usury, better known as interest, is the very antithesis of the gift.

Instead of giving to others when one has more than one needs ...

Usury seeks to use the power of ownership to gain even more ... to take from others rather than to give.

Money created [by Federal Reserve] accompanies a corresponding debt.

The debt is always far more than the amount of money actually created.

Usury both generates today’s endemic scarcity and drives the world-devouring engine of perpetual growth.

To make new money to keep the whole system going we have to create more “goods and services”...

By selling something that was once free.

Completing the vicious circle, the more of life we convert into money, the more we need money to live.

Usury, not money, is the proverbial root of all evil.

 
Last edited:
Messages
3,613
Reaction score
1,099
Well, if Biden wins the election, you guys (socialists/communists) are going to get to see first hand what those ideologies really look like. Trump is all that is keeping us from being swallowed by the globalist agenda.

The great reset. It can’t happen when the world superpower still believes in freedom.

Covid is just like global warming. Designed to make everyone broke, then dependent on government, who will overspend looking after you till it is broke. Then you can eat your pets and lose your homes. And wander around the romantic way George likes, on foot or if you are lucky on a horse. Till someone kills you because they want to eat your horse.

Then 8 billion people die. Started by a fake epidemic and lies about sea levels rising.

It’s already well underway. Airlines are dying. Small and medium businesses are dying. More lockdowns.

There will be some Stalinlike World leader.

look up the great reset. They make it sound good. Like the great place Jews were going to when loaded on trains.

If Biden wins, they will take away guns and kill all who resist

Then the reset. AOC’s knock down all inefficient houses and replace them with green ones. Your house is next, hop on this train and we will bring you back when we’ve made it green.

I’m glad I know how it turns out.

Of course if Trump wins, 4 more years of LLeft setting stuff impatiently on fire because Armageddon can’t come soon enough.

Both good and evil racing toward the return of Jesus.
 

GeoFee

I am who I am becoming...
Messages
4,215
Reaction score
2,706
Reading your notions about the right hand being right and the left hand being wrong puzzles me. The language seems rooted in the principle of division. Each party accusing the other of costly error. This being among my primary reasons for stepping out of the political process.
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Messages
7,593
Reaction score
1,640
My 'Commons' sense informs me that global resources such as air, land, water and biodiversity do not belong to one political 'party' or another any more than they belong to any one community or individual or another.

Global 'Commons' belong to humanity as a whole and if left or right comes into it ... the whole brain needs to be activated not just the left or the right of it.

Trump or Biden alone are not evil in and of themselves ... the system that they are in service to is the evil that Jesus reviled.

I am with Pontifex on the evil that is embodied in the 'Great Reset' agenda ... the road to hell paved with artificial good intentions is at the crux of that BEAST.
 
Last edited:

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Messages
46,487
Reaction score
3,609
My 'Commons' sense informs me that global resources such as air, land, water and biodiversity do not belong to one political 'party' or another any more than they belong to any one community or individual or another.

Global 'Commons' belong to humanity as a whole and if left or right comes into it ... the whole brain needs to be activated not just the left or the right of it.

Trump or Biden alone are not evil in and of themselves ... the system that they are in service to is the evil that Jesus reviled.

I am with Pontifex on the evil that is embodied in the 'Great Reset' agenda ... the road to hell paved with artificial good intentions is at the crux of that BEAST.

This too can be marketed ... and people will buy into it ... to associate with power! Thus the crack in fair trade as just too khol ... and darkly mysterious as we don't know what the powerful agenda is ...

Some Moor to look into ...
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Messages
7,593
Reaction score
1,640
Amen!
Since the nineties I have seen a constant dismantling of the public sector here in Oz, replaced by the private sector, that has made the cost of basic utilities more expensive for the consumer. And, even more alarming, if the private corporation doesn't make enough profit - guess what - the government bails them out with taxpayer money. It's a corporate con......
Like this ... $30m security contract awarded to a non vetted Sydney company by text?
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Messages
46,487
Reaction score
3,609
It appears there are extremes and exceptions everywhere ... even in the differences between capitalism, communism and moderate socialism as a means of balance between tyrants of differing orders of magnitude ... missing magda-LA? Post hole ... it follows ... always the dark and gamma's list ... its phi Anne indelibles as inky ... tis phinkterre as rendered!
 

jimkenney12

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Reaction score
220
Pontifax Geronimo, I am puzzled by your claims about Biden's agenda. Much of what you said is the objective of the people behind the Tea Party movement that took over the Republican Party. The only freedom they want is for the wealthy.
 
Messages
27,947
Reaction score
3,690
Well, if Biden wins the election, you guys (socialists/communists) are going to get to see first hand what those ideologies really look like. Trump is all that is keeping us from being swallowed by the globalist agenda.

The great reset. It can’t happen when the world superpower still believes in freedom.

Covid is just like global warming. Designed to make everyone broke, then dependent on government, who will overspend looking after you till it is broke. Then you can eat your pets and lose your homes. And wander around the romantic way George likes, on foot or if you are lucky on a horse. Till someone kills you because they want to eat your horse.

Then 8 billion people die. Started by a fake epidemic and lies about sea levels rising.

It’s already well underway. Airlines are dying. Small and medium businesses are dying. More lockdowns.

There will be some Stalinlike World leader.

look up the great reset. They make it sound good. Like the great place Jews were going to when loaded on trains.

If Biden wins, they will take away guns and kill all who resist

Then the reset. AOC’s knock down all inefficient houses and replace them with green ones. Your house is next, hop on this train and we will bring you back when we’ve made it green.

I’m glad I know how it turns out.

Of course if Trump wins, 4 more years of LLeft setting stuff impatiently on fire because Armageddon can’t come soon enough.

Both good and evil racing toward the return of Jesus.
Biden is NOT a socialist. He's a neoliberal hawk not much different from the Bushes (maybe he's softened a bit in his old age - but not a socialist.). He's still better than Frump.

AOC 2024!
 
Top