Capitalism or Socialism?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

GeoFee

I am who I am becoming...
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
4,313
Capitalism is based on competition. Socialism is based on cooperation. Gathering manna (daily bread) offers an illustration of a biblical social economy. Each labours according to personal ability. All are included in the benefits acquired by that labour. None are left without the necessities of life - food, clothing and shelter.

Jesus tells a story about a wealthy person who ignores a poor person he passes every day. The wealthy person is negatively treated by God. The poor person is treated positively. Why?
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
3,689
Capitalism is based on competition. Socialism is based on cooperation. Gathering manna (daily bread) offers an illustration of a biblical social economy. Each labours according to personal ability. All are included in the benefits acquired by that labour. None are left without the necessities of life - food, clothing and shelter.

Jesus tells a story about a wealthy person who ignores a poor person he passes every day. The wealthy person is negatively treated by God. The poor person is treated positively. Why?
Socialism is a system where people legally take away from those who work, and under ideal circumstances give it to those who don’t. It is not charity, but more like theft. But under normal circumstances, the people who run the system do not adhere to the system and they make themselves wealthy at the expense of those who work.

as to the story of the wealthy and the poor person

leviticus
Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.


So I would submit that you do not judge fairly.

you rightly judge, in this case who is at fault, but the test you use to come to that conclusion is incorrect.
 

unsafe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
4,638
GeoFee -----you said ----Jesus tells a story about a wealthy person who ignores a poor person he passes every day. The wealthy person is negatively treated by God. The poor person is treated positively. Why?

I say ---Please ---Can you give the Chapter and verse -you speak of here -- ---------this just might be you saying this to serve your own agenda -----is this the parable of the rich man and Lazarus you speak of -?---Luke 16 :19 31 ----where are you getting this from ?

If this is the scripture you speak of this has to do where people end up eternally ------it is not about God treating the wealthy person negatively -----and God treating the poor person positively ----- God does not determine where people end up when they die ----people choose their own eternal destination -----Just saying
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
18,529
None are left without the necessities of life - food, clothing and shelter.

Thus the parable of the workers in the vineyard, where the ones hired at the end of the day were paid exactly what those hired at the beginning of the day were. Each received a "denarius", generally considered to be a "living wage" (i.e. sufficient for food/housing) for a day.
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
7,872
Location
Manitoba
For “Socialism, as such implies neither liberty nor authority. The word itself implies nothing more than a harmonious relationship. In fact, it is so broad a term that it is difficult of definition. ... The word Socialism having been applied for years, by common usage and consent, as a generic term to various schools of thought and opinion, those who try to define it are bound to seek the common element of all these schools and make it stand for that, and have no business to make it represent the specific nature of any one of them. ...

Socialism is the belief that the next important step in progress is a change in man’s environment of an economic character that shall include the abolition of every privilege whereby the holder of wealth acquires an anti-social power to compel tribute.” (Tucker, Instead of a Book, p. 364.)

(Tucker, Instead of a Book, p. 364.)
 
Last edited:

Ritafee

Being Human
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
7,872
Location
Manitoba
Every moral philosopher from the time of Aristotle to the present day has condemned usury in every form. Even the defenders of interest have never dared to justify their theories on ethical grounds, but on the plea that it is unavoidable.{20}

Luke 6:34-35 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
 

Ritafee

Being Human
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
7,872
Location
Manitoba
Socialism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution.

Share of production after a percentage has been deducted for the common good.
 

PilgrimsProgress

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
1,278
Capitalism or socialism?........

Seeing the world in binary terms is not for me.
It often leads to conflict - sometimes when folks are, in reality, arguing about different things.
As has been pointed out both terms are loaded -both capitalism and socialism have many different forms in practice..

It seems to me that any political system will have both its faults and attributes.

That said, I personally favour a democratic form of socialism, along the lines espoused by Bernie Sanders.
As a Christian , I believe in a system that favours the common good -with its focus on social capital, rather then economic capital. Jesus often spoke for the "least of these" and present day neo-liberalism is the antithesis of that.
 

Northwind

Still knitting. Walking the path to health.
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
11,236
Location
British Columbia
Thanks for those words @PilgrimsProgress. I've been thinking about this and it's the binary nature of the question that's problematic for me.

There's nothing wrong with pure capitalism if it does indeed involve exchange of talents etc that @Pontifex Geronimo 13 suggested in another thread. Competition and the ability to use ones talents well is a good thing. The problem arises when greed is involved. Then we get the Trumps of the world who hoard wealth and operate in their own best interests only. Accumulating wealth isn't necessarily a bad thing. When money is worshipped and when that's the only thing valued then there's a problem. When wealth is accumulated on the backs of the vulnerable or slave labour it's a problem.

Socialism is good when it is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" Recognizing we all have different needs and abilities theoretically distributes resources better. Of course theory and practice don't always align well. The problem with socialism is when it becomes more like communism and there isn't room for individuality.

So I suppose this is a bit of a wishy washy answer. I do not believe in the mythical "Free Market" . That is as Utopian as Marx's society. I'd like to see a more egalitarian society, where people's skills are valued and where anyone can succeed. It would mean no dire poverty or extreme wealth. It would mean no "power over" people.
 

GeoFee

I am who I am becoming...
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
4,313
I should be clear that I am not advocating socialism as a political system. My sense is that there is but one human being present in a great diversity of forms. My hope is for a growing recognition that we are companions and not adversaries. As companions we share responsibility for each other and for the natural environment.

The reunion of our common human being cannot be achieved by the coercion of law. It will rise person by person as each recognizes our common past and our common future. This possibility was manifest in the community united by the spirit of Jesus. It lasted only a short while, deterioration of its primary purpose beginning by its institutionalization.

This forum makes possible the emergence of a communal language oriented to unity rather than division by the categories of right and wrong. Not imposed by structure but inspired by the spirit of truth and compassion manifest in the stories about Jesus.

Our human destiny is calling us to forgo competition and foster cooperation.
 
Last edited:

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
18,529
My hope is for a growing recognition that we are companions and not adversaries. As companions we share responsibility for each other and for the natural environment.

Seems to me that this position, similar to mine, is a sort of blend of socialism and indigenous wisdom.

Doesn't need a label, necessarily, but "all my relations" as a motto, is not bad at all.
 

BetteTheRed

Resident Heretic
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
18,529
And I love the idea that if you can convert your enemy to a friend, then you will ultimately have no enemies....
 
Top