Can we talk about suicide? Or is it a taboo subject?

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Seeler

Seeler

Well-Known Member
Over in our Room forum I mentioned the death of a young man by suicide. A few years ago I was aware of the suicide of a 13-year-old boy. Both tragedies were devastating to both family and friends. I worry about the prevalence of suicide among young people today. (My grandchildren are in that age group.) But this thread is open to talk about suicide in any age group.

How prevalent is suicide? Is it more prevalent now than it was in the past? Or is it just that we are more open about it?

What do young people choose this way? Are they under greater pressures now than we were?

How can we help them? What are the signs we should look for? What should we do if we do see the signs? What help is available?
 
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I get emails from this blogger. He is currently one of the hardest working awareness raisers on this subject, in the world. I hadn't read one in awhile. This one pierced my heart.

alexschadenberg.blogspot.com

Vincent Lambert ordered to die by France's highest appeal court.

A blog about euthanasia, assisted suicide, elderly abuse, end-of-life care, disability rights, palliative care.
alexschadenberg.blogspot.com alexschadenberg.blogspot.com
I find it hypocritical that we talk suicide prevention and advocate for assisted suicide at the same time. The French courts, despite the UN, don't care about preventing tragedies like this, apparently.





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He was denied his human rights under international human rights law (after the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with disabilities intervened in his specific case), by the courts of a developed country that is signatory to these rights. That gives me a chill up my spine. They obviously do not consider his life to be important. They should be protecting his life...an adult human being who has people who love and care about him. What about those who don’t have caring people in their lives?




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People who were all excited about passing these types of “progressive” laws here and didn’t consider the far reaching implications of it at this time in history - to insure that it is as stringent as possible while allowing exceptional cases for the terminally ill - really piss me off. People in high places will not stop trying to relax these laws until everyone who is non-normative falls under them. There is an agenda. It’s tragic and inhuman. It’s psychopathic and monstrous.


(I was going to correct my autocorrect from inhuman to inhumane. But it’s just inhuman.)




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You've really de-railed this thread, kimmio.

We're talking about suicide, I think, here. Not assisted death, which is, I think a very different thing.

I come from a long line of people with depressive-type illnesses. None have died by their own hand, but there's been many threats. The big 'tool' that I know of is the 72 hour hold in the hospital.
 
It's a big deal among young people. They are the most vulnerable, having, I think, the most volatile emotions due to hormonal upsets. My son threatened suicide in his early 20s. We got him into the hospital on a 72 hr hold. He was not happy about that, and remains kinda unforgiving with me about the issue. My mother harboured the same sort of resentment over her first and only hospitalization for a severe depressive episode of bipolar in the early 70s. Mentally ill people don't like involuntary hospitalization, quite understandably. Sometimes, it saves their life.
 
BetteTheRed said:
You've really de-railed this thread, kimmio.

We're talking about suicide, I think, here. Not assisted death, which is, I think a very different thing.

I come from a long line of people with depressive-type illnesses. None have died by their own hand, but there's been many threats. The big 'tool' that I know of is the 72 hour hold in the hospital.
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No it is not. Not when people with non-terminal conditions such as mental disorders are dying by request when they have many years to live. They are not two different things and we are hanging onto suicide prevention by a thread. Take your middle class entitled opinion on this and stuff it. Hypocritical attitudes like yours are making it permissible for doctors to help people who are the slightest bit non normative, with so many options for living if society didn’t degrade the value of life to some mainstream ideal, to commit suicide with the help of a doctor. One of the arguments made in court was that because severely disabled couldn’t safely commit suicide by themselves, and attempting suicide is legal...they should have the right to ask for medical assistance. It’s still suicide but now it’s already distorted in the public’s mind as something ethical. Bulls**t! Aside from late stage terminally ill requests, the whole idea is fking sick!






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The man in France was not dying. He was disabled. It was suicide - or murder masquerading as suicide. So if you want to be ableist, f*** off. It’s not a separate subject.



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I will be the first to admit to having had suicidal thoughts. I was bullied and socially isolated save for a few good friends for most of my teens and it certainly crossed my mind at some low points. Never even came close to acting on it. Nowadays, I have the odd depressive episode but suicide isn't really an option I would consider. It can never be as bad as it was back then and I am quite conscious of that.
 
While physician assisted death and the situation described in the Opening Post may be related, they are NOT the same. This thread has to do with the latter. Any thoughts about physician assisted death should be in a new thread, or in the existing thread on that topic. KIndly confine discussion on this thread to the topic. Thank you.
 
Seeler said:
How prevalent is suicide? Is it more prevalent now than it was in the past? Or is it just that we are more open about it?
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Statistics are a bit behind - but this seems to be the most up to to date info from Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention. It doesn't answer your question about increasing prevalence tho. I'm sure that info is out there somewhere too - but sometimes numbers are hard to compare as measurement/reporting methods change over time. Anecdotally, I think there is more openness to identifying when a person has died by suicide.
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Seeler said:
What do young people choose this way? Are they under greater pressures now than we were?
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It's a good question and a very complex one. I do sense that youth are certainly under different pressures now compared to when I was growing up. Boys are at particulary higher risk for dying by suicide, but I haven't read enough to posit reasons, although I could venture some guesses.

Seeler said:
How can we help them? What are the signs we should look for? What should we do if we do see the signs? What help is available?
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There are many, many resources now easily available online - which I think is one benefit of the internet. On the flip side, there is also more info at one's fingertips about how to die by one's own hand. In terms of being able to recognize signs (and do know that not everyone who dies by suicide will be obvious about signs) I think this site has pretty good resources - https://suicideprevention.ca/About-Suicide-and-Life-Promotion - not just about those who might feel suicidal, but also around issues of support for those bereaved by a suicide death, responsible media, language etc.

LivingWorks Homepage also has excellent programmes to help people in many walks of life recognize and inquire about possible suicidal ideas. Some churches offer these programmes, I think. We probably can all learn to be more direct & engaging when talking about suicide. It's not an easy topic for many people.
 
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They are distantly related enough that they do not deserve to be lumped together as though they were the same. If you wish to continue in your line of discussion, please do so in another thread. This thread is not the place for it.
 
The man I posted about in France was not protected by suicide prevention even when the UN commitee for persons with disabilities intervened. There was no mention whether he was suicidal - but he was not dying. Whether or not he was suicidal hardly seems relevant to you people. The precise reason the UN intervened was because the courts were deadly ableist. It disrespected human rights law. He is not a separate class of human. Discussion does not belong in a separate class either. It is ableist to not be concerned with disabled people's suicidality.
 
Kimmio - you have been asked twice by moderator to place your concerns regarding this man & his situation in a separate thread. That does not mean that nobody here is interested. It is not an unreasonable request. I hope you will be able to do so if you want to pursue that discussion further.
 
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