Bullying

[chansen]

Apology, rescinded the moderators report, admitting that the coerced apology was a stupid idea...anything along those lines.

Undo, completely, the stupid f***ing decision.

 

[ChemGal]

Apology, rescinded the moderators report, admitting that the coerced apology was a stupid idea...anything along those lines.

Undo, completely, the stupid f***ing decision.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
Not ignoring this, but there's a few things going on tonight.

 

[chansen]

I know.

I can't really help you two with this over my head. I may still be the best shot you have.

 

[paradox3]

Apology, rescinded the moderators report, admitting that the coerced apology was a stupid idea...anything along those lines.

Undo, completely, the stupid f***ing decision.

What is the Moderators Report? Is it something archived that could be removed from the moderators forum?

How could the decision be undone? Is the apology to Aaron still readable on an old thread?

You have been pushing the current council to provide an apology or issue a ban. I can't see how either of these options will give you the closure you seek.

Do you have a discipline-free record here? That could open up some possibilities. In Labour Relations most union contracts allow for removal of letters etc after a period of discipline-free time.

This is not the greatest of analogies but maybe something could be worked out. Or maybe this is too much of a stretch.

You will be missed if you decide to leave WC2.

 

[chansen]

I'm not deciding to leave WC2. WC2 will decide if I leave WC2.

The council f***ed up. I want that, in writing, like I was chastised in writing and pressured to make a fake apology in writing. I want that, on the forum, officially saying that the whole thing was wrong from the start.

Or, just ban me and we're done.

 

[paradox3]

I guess I have been wondering if some sort of settlement could be achieved. It could be there are more options than the two you present.

 

[chansen]

I don't see a third one. Not now. Not after being given the runaround and ignored this long.

In this thread about bullying, suggesting my comments about Aaron are bullying when Aaron has a long history of being a bully admin, deleting posts and threads with no justification, was just too much.

Pressuring an apology was a stupid f***ing thing to do, and no one would even entertain the notion of never doing it again last year when I came back. The leadership of this place is stuck on the discipline model of keeping a community in check, and I'm f***ing over it. I don't think I'm alone on that.

Can you imagine forcing Chemgal to write an apology to Northwind right now? Or Northwind to Chemgal? Under threat of some unspoken plan B if they don't? No?

For my sanity, I just want it acknowledged that it was a mistake and that it never should have gone down that way. Wipe the entire slate clean. Undo the moderators report. Or if it wasn't a mistake, does the current council want to require either Chemgal or Northwind to write an apology, right now?

 

[Luce NDs]

I don't see a third one. Not now. Not after being given the runaround and ignored this long.

In this thread about bullying, suggesting my comments about Aaron are bullying when Aaron has a long history of being a bully admin, deleting posts and threads with no justification, was just too much.

Pressuring an apology was a stupid f***ing thing to do, and no one would even entertain the notion of never doing it again last year when I came back. The leadership of this place is stuck on the discipline model of keeping a community in check, and I'm f***ing over it. I don't think I'm alone on that.

Can you imagine forcing Chemgal to write an apology to Northwind right now? Or Northwind to Chemgal? Under threat of some unspoken plan B if they don't? No?

For my sanity, I just want it acknowledged that it was a mistake and that it never should have gone down that way. Wipe the entire slate clean. Undo the moderators report. Or if it wasn't a mistake, does the current council want to require either Chemgal or Northwind to write an apology, right now?

There's more than the ordinary folk can perceive ... virtually unbelievable! With adequate mindset this could be blinding ... especially if arriving in a flash of insight ... innate so as to remain less obvious! The obscuring sectors ... grease spots in archaic Semitic tongues may be Shaman ... like McAdam ... a Rhode to elle?

Why some say it is best to remain illiterate ... know NU's? Not! Ignore faction, function as fundamental in flawed humanity to see if they can get through it.

If you do know something sophisticated make it seem stupid and out of normal ... unquestioned matter like weird dimensions ... psyche ...

 

[Northwind]

Can you imagine forcing Chemgal to write an apology to Northwind right now? Or Northwind to Chemgal? Under threat of some unspoken plan B if they don't? No?

This puts your situation into perspective for me. There is a time and a place. There are important things that have to happen first. Sometimes just walking away is a start.

An apology has three parts: acknowledgement of the harmful action, the apology, and a commitment to a change in behaviour. For example it might be "I know I disappointed you when I gave you tea instead of coffee. I apologize for that. I will listen to you and give you coffee next time. (Or whatever beverage you ask for). It isn't an apology if one of those components is missing.

The trouble is, sometimes people can't do that for whatever reason. So what do we do if the person we think needs to apologize can't or won't? What do we do if they don't see the harm they've done? How do we find a way to make peace?

It's really tough.

 

[chansen]

The only thing I can think of is to have the current mods just come together and admit the mistake of the previous mods. We're forever told how the mod team are independent of the admins. Show it.

Yeah, JayneWonders will be mad. It's kind of her thing. I've been on the receiving end enough. She was fine communicating with me when I didn't defend myself. Once I started speaking up, she put me on ignore. Sort of. She still magically knows when to be offended.

Or, once again, just ban me.

 

[JayneWonders]

Or is no longer present...

My father had a difficult relationship with some of his children.
There were some items that were not able to be resolved before his death.
He could not receive an apology, nor could he give it. He was dead.

The individual carrying the pain, has to choose how to proceed.
We, at wondercafe2, have lost a number of good people. Thankfully, they were good people, and didn't have long running arguments. Not to say that we were always in agreement, Seeler & I did have our moments, but nothing that stuck.

 

[Mendalla]

@Mendalla how do I go about either getting the record set straight regarding the coerced apology, or getting banned from here?

Ask someone who is still on Council. You might have missed a post I made in News & Business a while back. I'm a civvie now save for keeping an admin account handy for helping with upgrades and site changes.

I know from past experience that mods loooove to flip out at swearing, so is that my best course of action?

Not sure that's an issue. I have enough filters on that even my own periodic bouts of f***ing profanity (yes, I swear online and IRL) pretty much get bowdlerized. Certainly, I have never seen anyone sanctioned in any way beyond a purple text warning for swearing.

 

[Mendalla]

Certainly, I have never seen anyone sanctioned in any way beyond a purple text warning for swearing.

Actually, I wonder if @chansen is thinking of the old site. There may well have been moderation for profanity there. Here, we've mostly relied on the filters since the beginning.

 

[chansen]

Actually, I wonder if @chansen is thinking of the old site. There may well have been moderation for profanity there. Here, we've mostly relied on the filters since the beginning.

Not quite. If I replied to Aaron on WC2 back in the day and used any sort of curse word, that was reason to delete my post. No curse word, and the post stayed. It was a rather predictable formula. I was told it wasn't a formula, so I tested it.

It was a formula.

 

[Mendalla]

If I replied to Aaron on WC2 back in the day and used any sort of curse word, that was reason to delete my post.

I don't recall this at all. It's certainly not how things are handled generally around here in my experience, even back then. After all, if we were going to go hardcore on profanity like that, then we wouldn't really need the filters, would we? And Aaron never had mod rights here, so he could not have been doing it (you would know that, since you would have had to give him those rights back then).

However, if indeed that happened, apologies for my part in it, whatever that might have been. I certainly would not have sanctioned deleting the whole post, just bleeping out the offensive word, as we do nowadays.

 

[chansen]

Aaron would flag any post I made with a swear word in it. Neo would then delete the post. It was almost comical how he claimed there was no formula, then I tested it and confirmed the formula.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Wow, look what happens when you go away for a while!

Same old thing.

 

[Northwind]

Same old thing.

Yes, sadly that's true.

I love the clip and a new take on an old skit. Who's who in there. I must be one of them.

I have new perspective and hopefully won't bite the next time it bubbles up. Pray for me.

 

[chansen]

Wow, look what happens when you go away for a while!

Same old thing.

Oh look! It's the second coming of Jesus!

 

[jimkenney12]

Power. Bullying. Harassment. Respect. Disrespect. Self defense. Self justification. Misunderstanding. Intent. Effects. Misplaced pain and anger.

These are key elements in all the discussions in this thread. I offer the following observations which might not be true. Please offer what you believe are corrections to my observations.
1. Chansen posted one or more posts which led to some other people feeling offended. Chansen felt bullied by Aaron. The outcomes included the mods at the time coercing chansen to make an apology he did not want to make, chansen feeling violated or otherwise harmed by that process and, chansen demanding an apology for being forced to make the apology. Chansen continues demanding an apology and feeling disrespected by a lack of helpful response. Some members of this forum believe he should receive an apology. One member who may have contributed to the decision by the mods at the time is deflecting any responsibility for that decision. I believe that member is showing disrespect in not declaring that person's view on whether or not an apology should be made to chansen.

2. CG and NW, at a time when they were experiencing pain and anger from events in their lives, entered a discussion which seemed to include misunderstandings and misdirected anger leading to both feeling harassed or bullied by the other. There might be some previous history in their relationship that I do not know. I do know that I was confused by their comments to each other as I did not see how their responses to each other's comments were actually responses to those particular comments. They both seem to feel hurt and angry, partly with each other and partly with themselves for allowing the conflict to escalate. I believe they need to begin with forgiving themselves for allowing the bad stuff in their lives to erupt in creating the conflict. I hope that they are able to take a time out from each other that is long enough for the good relationship they had to subdue any bad feelings they currently hold and one of them may need more time than the other.
3. I believe we need a bullying policy that includes a ban on requiring anyone to apologize. If someone is offended by a post and report that to the mods, they need to clearly explain why they are offended. Preferably, they would be expected to private message the person making the post before reporting to the mods.