Lastpointe
Well-Known Member
Good idea. Perhaps they do that
Basic Income ... Good? Bad? Ugly?
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Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
Somewhere I saw an article making the point that the CERB and whatever other money lately during Covid made the point that a lot of people would rather not work and get a basic income than work minimum wage jobs, as we can see presently by the large amount of jobs available. ( and by the fact that our agriculture is depending on foreign workers). Those are hard jobs to work. What would wages have to be to make them attractive to Canadians?
jimkenney12
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UBI, properly done, would complement any earnings a person may make. CERB rules penalized people for working.
Mrs.Anteater
Just keep going....
But why would you work if you can live for free? I remember there used to be a tv show called” dirty jobs”. They showed jobs that were dealing with “ dirty stuff” and often under really uncomfortable conditions, like having to crawl into a tight space to clean something very stinky. I remember noticing that the worker they interviewed often seem to be proud of what they do, sometimes it sounded like they had a passion for it. You kind of had to have a passion in order to do it. I wonder, it people just get paid to do nothing if there is even a chance people would try out difficult jobs, because they don’t have to?
jimkenney12
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If UBI is $300/week, it would only be enough for a minimal life style:. Shelter, food, public transportation, basic clothing, basic cell phone. Most people want more than that. $300/week would be less than minimum wage at over 25 hours per week.
Why would someone do a bottom job when one could be a high paid administrator and not really have any experience on the dirt of life.
The consequence is that life gets dirtier and dirtier and the administration doesn't know why ... obviously something was lost in the cloud and mist!
Remember as one who doesn't know you may stick out as a target ... and the great mother of all will get yah ... tis a dark process, some say dippy ...
The consequence is that life gets dirtier and dirtier and the administration doesn't know why ... obviously something was lost in the cloud and mist!
Remember as one who doesn't know you may stick out as a target ... and the great mother of all will get yah ... tis a dark process, some say dippy ...
jimkenney12
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Hee is a letter I sent by email to my MP today regarding UBI. There is a private members bill for UBI which, I believe, is currently in committee.
Dear Mr. Francis Drouin,
If I was more fluent in French, this letter would be in French. Belated congratulations on your success in winning re-election.
I ask you to support the Universal Basic Income bill that is currently, as far as I know, in committee.
A Universal Basic Income would make life better for millions of Canadians, especially people leaving or trying to leave domestic abuse, post-secondary students, people with health or addiction issues, seniors on a minimum income, gig workers including entertainers and artists, and people old and young struggling to survive on low wage and part-time work. I believe several people and organizations are presenting abundant evidence on the benefits of UBI to society as a whole as well as many of the people who receive it.
I would hope that UBI would be provided to every person age 16 or 18 and over that files a tax return. I believe $300/week would make a sufficient difference while not encouraging people not to work. It could replace AOS, GST rebates, and Carbon Tax rebates. It should be seen as completely separate from Employment Insurance. It would provide resilience for society in events such as economic collapses or epidemics without needing to hastily create programs such as CERB.
I see three barriers to UBI. The first is a distorted protestant work ethic that resents money being paid to people just because they need it, a work ethic that ignores the reality we live in a highly connected society in which harm to a few results in harm of some sort for everyone. The second is the resistance of wealthy people to sharing their excess wealth along with the undeniable influence they have on government decision-making. The third is the reality that members of parliament earn more than three times as much as the average Canadian and, as such, would see a substantial increase in their federal income taxes. This increase, depending on the actual revisions to the tax schedule, could amount to about 10% of their income.
I invite you as a person dedicated to public service, a dedication you fill well having earned the trust and support of many to most people in this constituency, will choose to make that sacrifice for the sake of the thousands of people who would benefit from UBI.
Sincerely,
Jim Kenney
Dear Mr. Francis Drouin,
If I was more fluent in French, this letter would be in French. Belated congratulations on your success in winning re-election.
I ask you to support the Universal Basic Income bill that is currently, as far as I know, in committee.
A Universal Basic Income would make life better for millions of Canadians, especially people leaving or trying to leave domestic abuse, post-secondary students, people with health or addiction issues, seniors on a minimum income, gig workers including entertainers and artists, and people old and young struggling to survive on low wage and part-time work. I believe several people and organizations are presenting abundant evidence on the benefits of UBI to society as a whole as well as many of the people who receive it.
I would hope that UBI would be provided to every person age 16 or 18 and over that files a tax return. I believe $300/week would make a sufficient difference while not encouraging people not to work. It could replace AOS, GST rebates, and Carbon Tax rebates. It should be seen as completely separate from Employment Insurance. It would provide resilience for society in events such as economic collapses or epidemics without needing to hastily create programs such as CERB.
I see three barriers to UBI. The first is a distorted protestant work ethic that resents money being paid to people just because they need it, a work ethic that ignores the reality we live in a highly connected society in which harm to a few results in harm of some sort for everyone. The second is the resistance of wealthy people to sharing their excess wealth along with the undeniable influence they have on government decision-making. The third is the reality that members of parliament earn more than three times as much as the average Canadian and, as such, would see a substantial increase in their federal income taxes. This increase, depending on the actual revisions to the tax schedule, could amount to about 10% of their income.
I invite you as a person dedicated to public service, a dedication you fill well having earned the trust and support of many to most people in this constituency, will choose to make that sacrifice for the sake of the thousands of people who would benefit from UBI.
Sincerely,
Jim Kenney
Carolla
wondering & wandering
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@jimkenney12 - that's excellent letter you wrote! I'm curious about what response you got?
Today I joined the UCC's Guaranteed Liveable Income network, having just recently learned about this network. Was an interesting meeting - online of course - with people from across Canada. They are currently focusing their efforts at the municipal level & having some success with local goverments resolving to actively encourage the other levels of government to adopt GLI. I wondered 'why municipalities' and found this resource helpful - Basic Income for Municipalities
Anybody else actively involved in this issue?
Today I joined the UCC's Guaranteed Liveable Income network, having just recently learned about this network. Was an interesting meeting - online of course - with people from across Canada. They are currently focusing their efforts at the municipal level & having some success with local goverments resolving to actively encourage the other levels of government to adopt GLI. I wondered 'why municipalities' and found this resource helpful - Basic Income for Municipalities
Anybody else actively involved in this issue?
jimkenney12
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Not much response. The Liberals are not referring to GLI or UBI in any public statements I have heard. I believe a majority of Liberal MPs are in favour but most of them are not in the same income category as Trudeau and Freeland
GordW
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Given the province in which I live (which routinely complains of real or perceived federal overreach) a new thought came to mind.
GLI/UBI are often described as replacing all current income support programs. As it stands many of those programs are provincial jurisdiction (Ontario Works, Alberta;s Assured Income for the Serverely Handicapped[AISH] for two examples). Therefore GLI/UBI would seem to impinge on provincial jurisdiction. How does that get played out I wonder?
GLI/UBI are often described as replacing all current income support programs. As it stands many of those programs are provincial jurisdiction (Ontario Works, Alberta;s Assured Income for the Serverely Handicapped[AISH] for two examples). Therefore GLI/UBI would seem to impinge on provincial jurisdiction. How does that get played out I wonder?
The Canada Disability Benefit is being worked out - will be a top up to provincial benefits and supposedly without clawbacks. I’m not sure how the process of getting it will be worked out. People have been asking for something like it for awhile because all provincial jurisdictions disability incomes are well below poverty line - it’s obscene. Especially when you consider cost of living. It’s legislated poverty - particularly when people can’t work, can only work sporadically and/ or how much discrimination still exists in employment (yes it does). The unemployment rate for all disabled people is more than double those without disabilities - I believe that’s any labour force attachment f/t, p/t, temporary, seasonal. The unemployment rate for people with severe mental illness is 70-90%. (And the govt is expanding MAiD, bless their lil’ hearts /s)
People 65+ won’t be eligible as of yet, and that’s a significant problem.
Just saying this is happening before UBI because it’s needed so urgently - but they’re still slow to roll it out when they got CERB moving fast. I don’t expect UBI to happen anytime soon and when it does it better not replace any other necessary supports. That’s what I’m nervous about.
People 65+ won’t be eligible as of yet, and that’s a significant problem.
Just saying this is happening before UBI because it’s needed so urgently - but they’re still slow to roll it out when they got CERB moving fast. I don’t expect UBI to happen anytime soon and when it does it better not replace any other necessary supports. That’s what I’m nervous about.
jimkenney12
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Simplest is name UBI as a royalty payment paid to every adult resident and made taxable.
My guess is…Rich people with accountants will find a loophole not to pay it back and provinces will probably try to claw it back from disability recipients as unearned income. The poorest people always get screwed for being poor and those who aren’t don’t realize it. Sorry, I’m cynical/ not optimistic. It’s just that the govt, any govt, never does these things well. What they say they are doing to help and what happens in reality are two different things. (I’m sorry I just don’t trust anything anymore unless the plan comes from anti poverty advocates on the ground)
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Loopholes are how the perceived world goes round in a mind searching for power to rise by pushing the not republic-type down the sewer ... may form a sort of Coriolis effect in the head ... a chit bucket on a vessel of fools as they rush along without time for ath ought ... a following nothing? These are like subatomic particles as not physical real material ... deionized or dissociated bits ... they flash over synaptic gaps ... creating sparks of thought in open space ...
Explains a lot of spatial illusions. Then spatial is defined in some terms as total ... or the integral that remains beyond us mortal sticking points ... like noodles on the great isolation device ... will to know not ... and thus we don't ... is there a counter will?