Anti-2SLGBTQAA+ Protest today

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There were counter-protests at most of the events in Ontario, too, or so I am hearing. Haven't actually had any local news but did see news from nearby places like Kitchener.

EDIT: A story from Global on the general situation in Ontario

 
We had a bible study off site today so many of us who would have joined the counter protest couldn't (long planned, so couldn't be moved), but one of our retired ministers, a bible study member, who is a gay man, is visibly upset at what he perceives as a regression.
 
Unfortunately, the massive backlash in the US is having repercussions here, emboldening our social conservatives to try for the same here. Sadly, I think we are all going to have to vote strategically in 2025 (well, unless you're in a "safe" Liberal or NDP riding). Splitting the left is now a potential calamity in tight ridings. If current polling holds, Poilievre is looking at a majority and the right wing of his party will be expecting payback for getting the vote out if that happens. I imagine gay rights are relatively safe since that goes back a ways and polls generally show strong support for things like same sex marriage, but trans on the other hand...yeah, could be unpleasant. And I don't think he has the balls to stand up to them, either.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I think that the fear underlying this one is that there is a subset of humanity who think that they "own" their children.
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Not a subset. It was pretty much the legal status of children until my lifetime. So it is really the usual conservative "I want it the way it was in the good old days" attitude.
 
I just watched the protest and counter protest in my city. It just made me sad. There seemed to be no way that either side could understand the other side. It was accusations and determining that opinions meant hatred. I think some parents are legitimately scared about how to talk to their kids about 2SLGBTQAA+ . And they don't trust that the school system is the best way to initiate the talk, especially with the very young. I see openings for collaboration. I see discomfort more than hatred. And I fear that stand-offs, and labels do nothing to bring people together to do the best for the kids (which would be to understand and accept diversity within a loving and supportive family). I believe in the right to protest, but I don't think this particular protest and counter-protest led to anything positive. This is not very United Church of me to say this.
 
I'm going to add to this, because I've been thinking about it a lot. I think that the counter protesters have experienced so much hate and negative attitudes, that their approach is totally understandable. And I choose to believe that the original protesters were not there in an anti-2SLGBTQAA* way. But I could be wrong. I've done some more reading, and there are definitely extremists in that group. But I also think there are individuals who are just concerned about explicit sexual information directed at children who are too young to understand. (Such protests have happened before). When I was a teacher, or a parent of young children, I didn't have any understanding about most of the initials in the 2SLGBTQAA. Now, most of us do. As a teacher, if a student had asked for a particular pronoun usage, I would comply. I would also ask if they had talked to their families about it or whether they would like to talk to the school counselor. I would not pretend to be an expert. It would not change my devotion to that individual's education and well-being...It would just add a dimension. Also, just to be clear, there are quite a few of those initials represented in my family and extended family.
 
Yet, there are people that believe that slavery is gone as well as intellectual guidance ... through gentile myths? Such is hard protocol to teach kinds there are no consequences if you are bullish to a sufficient degree or dominion ... thus bull flies in sequence ... BS?

Prepare for Armageddon as we are buried in the fertility of the next generation ... the future appears it will be vicious ... because we haven't learned much!
 
Nancy said:
But I also think there are individuals who are just concerned about explicit sexual information directed at children who are too young to understand.
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I've thought about this too. Unfortunately, the fear is coming out in a way that scares people who are in this category.

It would sure be nice to have a conversation about this instead of a protest. Do the protestors even know what is actually happening in schools? Do counter protestors?


Nancy said:
As a teacher, if a student had asked for a particular pronoun usage, I would comply. I would also ask if they had talked to their families about it or whether they would like to talk to the school counselor. I would not pretend to be an expert. It would not change my devotion to that individual's education and well-being...It would just add a dimension.
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I suspect you are describing the norm for most places.

As for teaching around sexuality isn't that generally delivered in an age appropriate manner, if at all?

How does including books that have two moms or two dads in the story indoctrinate kids? How does welcoming a dude in a skirt sexualize kids? Where do girls labelled "tom boys" fit in? Etc.
 
Here's the thing, how is the teacher supposed to help a kid with same sex parents if they are not allowed to discuss same sex relationships with the class? Or a kid with a trans parent? Essentially, banning the teacher from using proper tools to teach about things that are part of some children's reality is going to marginalize those families. And.my fear is that certain political factions and movements are playing on people's fears to accomplish exactly that, marginalize LGBTQ+. This is really not about helping the children, it is about catering to adult fears and prejudices.
 
Mendalla said:
Here's the thing, how is the teacher supposed to help a kid with same sex parents if they are not allowed to discuss same sex relationships with the class? Or a kid with a trans parent? Essentially, banning the teacher from using proper tools to teach about things that are part of some children's reality is going to marginalize those families. And.my fear is that certain political factions and movements are playing on people's fears to accomplish exactly that, marginalize LGBTQ+. This is really not about helping the children, it is about catering to adult fears and prejudices.
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Well I am not completely convinced of this. I think this can be a very nuanced thing but there is no room for nuance in any of the public discourse going on. From either side, from what I can see.
 
I liked this meme that floated around today.

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I'm curious how speaking out against anti-trans and anti-LGBT etc is to be nuanced?

How do we stay silent in the face of potentially dangerous trends.

I recognize that some of the protestors have real fears. Those aren't the people who concern me.
 
paradox3 said:
Well I am not completely convinced of this. I think this can be a very nuanced thing but there is no room for nuance in any of the public discourse going on. From either side, from what I can see.
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Should we also recognize nuance in the abortion debate? Maybe a ban at 15 weeks is still respecting choice? Maybe the anti-abortion crowd should be allowed to picket clinics, interfere with women's access to them because there's "nuance"?

The only nuance here is recognizing who is confused and afraid and trying to steer them away from the manipulators who are trying to maneuver them into supporting their position, to accepting the idea that marginalizing LGBTQ+ is a valid way to "protect children" which is bulls**t. Far more children have been groomed and abused by heterosexual-identifying members of their own family than by any LGBTQ community members. There is no nuance in the laws being passed in Florida and other states and it is very clear that anti-LGBTQ+ forces here want the same thing and hope to use confused and scared parents to get it. I fail to see the nuance.
 
Correct me if I am wrong.

Didn't this whole protest and counterprotest begin over the question of advising parents if their child requests a change of name or pronouns?
 
That was the purported reason for it. The LGBTQ2S+ people I know are terrified. Of being forced back into boxes, which become closets.
 
Why is autonomy of the body not a human right, but rather, a right that parents can deny up until some arbitrary age? If a boy is gendered at birth as a girl for whatever reason, why does that boy have to wait a tortured 18 years to become a boy? Especially when puberty blockers at an appropriate age help with a more peaceful and productive transition?
 
paradox3 said:
Correct me if I am wrong.

Didn't this whole protest and counterprotest begin over the question of advising parents if their child requests a change of name or pronouns?
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Which can open the child to abuse since some parents could treat that as a discipline issue, not a health issue. I kind of get the parental concern, but I also understand the concern from the trans side. Same with protecting gay children who come out to a teacher or counsellor. Protecting children has to include protecting LGBTQ+ children, doesn't it?

And if you look at what has happened in the US, it has gone far, far beyond that. Even here, we have right wing groups trying to stack school boards to remove things like educational curriculum that discusses gender identity and orientation on the grounds that they are "promoting" transitioning and grooming children for abuse. There's a significant risk that this is the thin edge of the wedge. We know from various Conservative leadership races and policy conventions that the right wants to go much further than just parental consent.
 
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