An all-knowing/omniscient god would know what it takes to convince me!

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Pavlos Maros

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jimkenney12 said:
I went back to your first post and you claim in it to know your own mind. You claimed that you could not be convinced there is a god because you would 1) wonder if a alien being was just playing with your mind. You go on in that post or a subsequent one to wonder if you would still be you if you became convinced there was a god. I took this as referring to your claim about knowing your mind.
Exactly How could I or anybody be sure that the creature claiming it is a god is actually a god. I know because of that. That the only way an alien or even a god could convince me it was what it says it is, would be to totally change my personality.
jimkenney12 said:
I regret that so many people for or against the existence of God treat it as an intellectual exercise
Can it be deemed anything else if it hasn't been shown to exist.
jimkenney12 said:
like the third theorem of geometry rather than an experiential event.
I can get experiential event from drugs, drink, and hallucination, a blow to the head, etc. Should we treat those things with the same reverence, when they are no different.
 

Luce NDs

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Exactly How could I or anybody be sure that the creature claiming it is a god is actually a god. I know because of that. That the only way an alien or even a god could convince me it was what it says it is, would be to totally change my personality.
Can it be deemed anything else if it hasn't been shown to exist. I can get experiential event from drugs, drink, and hallucination, a blow to the head, etc. Should we treat those things with the same reverence, when they are no different.

Imagine when God hits as love ... and the vale is drawn!
 

Mendalla

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I can get experiential event from drugs, drink, and hallucination, a blow to the head, etc. Should we treat those things with the same reverence, when they are no different.
The answer depends on your tradition. A lot of older cultures used hallucinogens in rituals to create mystical experiences, believing they were a pathway to such experiences. That does not mean a desperate junkie is a mystic, but it also means we cannot exclude the idea that, used in a more controlled manner, things like psilocybin and marijuana have a place in spiritual/religious experience.
 

Luce NDs

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The answer depends on your tradition. A lot of older cultures used hallucinogens in rituals to create mystical experiences, believing they were a pathway to such experiences. That does not mean a desperate junkie is a mystic, but it also means we cannot exclude the idea that, used in a more controlled manner, things like psilocybin and marijuana have a place in spiritual/religious experience.

Whatever it takes to blow a stoned psyche ... nothing left but the dirt!
 

Mendalla

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As we exist, as we are alive, that fact alone gives an extreme probability to there being other life other existence out there.
Does it? It certainly proves that life can exist and develop the ability to self-reflect and study its place in existence. But as proof of life being widespread, it really did not provide much evidence until we also knew that other planets existed and were common. Had planetary formation turned out to be much rarer than it is, or had planets likely to sustain life proven to be uncommon, the probability would drop regardless of our existence. So our existence alone does not tell us how likely we are to find others like us. It is merely part of a very big puzzle.
 

Waterfall

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My point was that we are living creatures we are life, we exist, Regardless of whatever planet we reside on. The term alien is completely irrelevant to that.
As we exist, as we are alive, that fact alone gives an extreme probability to there being other life other existence out there.
Well if there were aliens its more than likely they would "breathe " hydrogen and not oxygen if they needed to breathe at all....sounds pretty alien to me.
Hey for all we know this earth is a prison with no others anywhere near us and space protects whoever or whatever from us and dying is the only way out.
 

Pavlos Maros

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The answer depends on your tradition. A lot of older cultures used hallucinogens in rituals to create mystical experiences, believing they were a pathway to such experiences. That does not mean a desperate junkie is a mystic, but it also means we cannot exclude the idea that, used in a more controlled manner, things like psilocybin and marijuana have a place in spiritual/religious experience.
Agreed, they certainly do.
 

Pavlos Maros

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Does it? It certainly proves that life can exist and develop the ability to self-reflect and study its place in existence. But as proof of life being widespread, it really did not provide much evidence until we also knew that other planets existed and were common. Had planetary formation turned out to be much rarer than it is, or had planets likely to sustain life proven to be uncommon, the probability would drop regardless of our existence. So our existence alone does not tell us how likely we are to find others like us. It is merely part of a very big puzzle.
Our existence does tell us it is more likely than finding a god.
 

Luce NDs

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Our existence does tell us it is more likely than finding a god.

Omah God it sounds like a sentient being ... in essence rare in many spots! Yet dark matter absorbs light better than the alternate shades ...


This allows for alternate understanding in what is contained in light and darkness ...
 

Luce NDs

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Oh, for sure. I don't think a deity can be "found" in a scientific way, not like us or aliens.

Like "all" else pans out ... I wouldn't be too sure about anything too rigid in BS ... it has its lumps and the lumps have bubbles!

Thus phat is rendered down ... in the phta realm ... tis abstract as if lost understanding in the past!

Theological folks despise scientific folks finding spirits and other essence as jew CID from nothing ... like rain forming from nothing but air ...
 
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Maybe it's something beyond the medicinal properties of cannabis, maybe not - but once I stopped thing about my back pain, I had a little epiphany. Lol. I'm sure I've thought of this before, but I forgot. This thread is a good place to write it down.

Everything that exists is made of an element. The substance of a thought cannot be objectively seen and measured because someone's thoughts can never be experienced in other human's mind completely, complete with the emotional context of that thought. All we can do is empathize. The substance of love cannot be measured. But love and thought exist. The ability to think has to come from the the pre-existing element of thought (whatever that is - we experience it as thought), the ability to love has to come from love (whatever that is, we experience it as love). In other words, we're not just made out of carbon. We're not rocks. We're made out of thoughts, and love, and emotional experiences, and time and motion. I know "God" exists because God had to be there for any of us to be here, and not only exist in our material bodies, but to have thoughts and be capable of love. We wouldn't have those abilities if the potential didn't pre-exist at the beginning of time. Love is always there, it's always in the universe. I know God loves me, loves everyone who has ever existed, even when I feel like the rest of humanity seems to have forgotten how to love each other. I suppose we could think of another name than G-o-d for it if we could ever grasp it fully. But why reinvent the wheel?
 
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As far as I know, Jewish people have a few names for God and often express it as G-d, and refer to it as something that doesn't have a name (the awareness that we construct the name, give it a label so there's a common sense of what's being refered to). That's sort of what I'm getting at. If we could all agree that the force that created our existence and awareness of our existence is elusive and no one group (including atheist scientific materialists and all religious sects) tried to lay claim to it and own it for themselves - if everyone had reverence for that elusive thing that some still refer to as God - all the thoughts and emotions and stardust that created us included - and we all shared a common awareness of the others' reverence for that same elusive thing - we'd all get along better as a human family.
 

Luce NDs

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IOW, we'd all have to agree that we were agnostic. We have our opinions, but no individual could possibly have "the truth", because we simply can't know.

Could we label this mortal or just limited as it is confined cognizance for all we know ... averred to that as if it isn't much!
 

Mendalla

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As far as I know, Jewish people have a few names for God and often express it as G-d, and refer to it as something that doesn't have a name (the awareness that we construct the name, give it a label so there's a common sense of what's being refered to). That's sort of what I'm getting at. If we could all agree that the force that created our existence and awareness of our existence is elusive and no one group (including atheist scientific materialists and all religious sects) tried to lay claim to it and own it for themselves - if everyone had reverence for that elusive thing that some still refer to as God - all the thoughts and emotions and stardust that created us included - and we all shared a common awareness of the others' reverence for that same elusive thing - we'd all get along better as a human family.
The problem, of course, is human nature. A significant percentage of our species don't like elusive things. They can't control them or use them to control others. Or they don't get the hard rules they think they need to keep people on the "straight and narrow." Coercive power is more important to them than relationships. So you get things like legalistic religious groups or political movements.

I, personally, agree 100% with what you are saying but it's a tougher sell generally than you would think.
 

Luce NDs

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Demagogues ... something only half there because the knowledge and wisdom is out there beyond eM?

Yet they carry impressive irrationality so as to appear carry's mati-Ç ( a variant of sigma/integral personality)!

In the search of soul ... don't go there! Rest and process cautiously ... o' dam ... another thought!

How deep is the unknown portion of soul? Sheer pits ...
 

Luce NDs

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Render it down to God is beyond mortal ideals ... out there according to Sam Johnson's old definition .. about knowledge and intellect being beyond the collected emotions!

The gravid state ...
 

BetteTheRed

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I, personally, agree 100% with what you are saying but it's a tougher sell generally than you would think.

Me, too, and I think I have a theory about why it's a tougher sell. Because rules are easier. It's right, it's wrong, you're in, you're out.

If you have to work out your moral code (including, preferably, largely understanding its underpinnings), it means that a lot of decisions have to be made, on a fairly constant basis. "Does it foster the critical works of life and love?"
 
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