"A fast from whiteness" - What do you think?

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Mendalla

Happy headbanging ape!!
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Leaving aside the expected animosity from the conservative White right, what do you think of the basic idea? Is "fasting from whiteness" for Lent a useful way to educate the church and get people thinking about how "White" Christianity is? Would you or your church try it? Frankly, I am still meditating on it, but it is an intriguing and innovative idea.


And, again, I want to discuss the idea, not the reaction, which is pretty much expected.
 
An interesting idea that is bound to be provocative. It kind of reminds me of the advertising campaign for the original Wondercafe.
This is the first I have heard of it.
 
Fascinating! I like it. Found it interesting to hear that most music written by black people is in public domain - no fees for use; therefore the church has elected to pay royalties to a local music school which provides free lesson for all, and they have accepted. I find that to be a respectful approach.

Found it interesting to think how much intentionality & time would go into the planning when our usual 'go-to' sources might be predominantly white. But once discovered - could be easily accessed in future to bring greater diversity.

To ask for congregants to experience something perhaps a bit different for ONE hour of a 168 hour week - seems like a small step to begin building some awareness. OTOH - I wonder if it was done, but not announced as such - discussed AFTER Easter - would there be a different effect? To centre non-white voices can certainly be challenging for many - requires the dominant forces to step back, listen, be vulnerable in relinquishing their (often tightly held) control of the narrative. How much can we rock the boat?
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Found it interesting to hear that most music written by black people is in public domain - no fees for use;
That's likely referencing spirituals and early gospel music, many of which date back to the segregation era so long out of copyright even if the author is known. Modern music by Black musicians is likely going to be in copyright unless the author has deliberately released it using a Creative Commons or similar license. I do like their approach but I hope they are also doing their homework. Sometimes art we think is PD is, in fact, not. How many of us thought "Happy Birthday!" was PD when, in fact, the composer was still entitled to royalties whenever it was published or used commercially.
 
That's likely referencing spirituals and early gospel music, many of which date back to the segregation era so long out of copyright even if the author is known. Modern music by Black musicians is likely going to be in copyright unless the author has deliberately released it using a Creative Commons or similar license. I do like their approach but I hope they are also doing their homework. Sometimes art we think is PD is, in fact, not. How many of us thought "Happy Birthday!" was PD when, in fact, the composer was still entitled to royalties whenever it was published or used commercially.
Actually -I was interested to look at the composer of the Prelude in the service noted in the article & shown in embedded video. It is a piece by Florence Price - classical composer, pianist, organist & teacher who died in 1953. That made me wonder about other black composers & this came up - explanding my knowledge on this dark afternoon of intermittent sun & hailstorms here!
 
Florence Price - classical composer, pianist, organist & teacher who died in 1953.

She is a particular favorite of Tom Allen's, the host of CBC Music's "About Time" program, 12-3 p.m. (I like it so much, I often listen to it from 12-3, then switch my time zone to Pacific and listen to it again.)
 
on this dark afternoon of intermittent sun & hailstorms here!

It was not unpleasant earlier here, but I've just come back from my daily solo trek around the block, and there was something solid-ish falling with the very cold rain.
 
I like the idea, but not really the phrasing, especially considering what's going on in Ukraine, people seeking refuge here from there, etc. With the genocide happening I don't want to disconnect from that cultural identity. White cultures are diverse and when it comes to hate, discrimination, xenophobia, it's not only POC who have been on the receiving end - it's just that here and now many of the historically marginalized white cultures have been accepted into the dominant society. I think there is still xenophobia though, especially with newcomers who are working on their English skills.
 
interesting concept.
Like so many things, the dialogue around even the doing makes us ponder who gets voice in church, who gets paid, the blinders that we wear.
I'm listening to the service now.
 
Ask yourself, "Why did Caucasians decide to label themselves "white" as opposed to "pink" or "flesh-toned" and Africans as "black" as opposed to "dark brown?" Jungian psychologists have an interesting archetypal take on this decision. Archetypes refer to the human tendency to organize perception and experience on certain universal symbols. These archetypes are identified through cross-cultural dreams, art, and religious symbolism. So under the sun's influence, "white" evolved as an archetype for nobility, purity, goodness, and safety, whereas "black" evolved as a symbol of danger, threat, evil, and inferiority because, for example, in ancient times it was dangerous and unproductive to go out in the jungle or woods at night and because we can't see clearly in the dark.

Archetypes are projected from the unconscious. So if I view myself as white, it is natural to view myself as good, pure, and productive, but if I project "black" onto Africans, this unconsciously shades perception in the direction of the sinister, the superstitious, the dangerous, the inferior, and evil. I heard Jungian psychologist James Hillman give a lecture that traced racism against Africans back to such hidden archetypal perceptions and projections.
 
In a natural schism white splits into 7 primal shades ... but you cannot say that ... for it'll be contrary to some ghostly quark ... what's the chance of dull and dense powers (logy)?

May entertain the ghost of the fringe ... the objective ideal! The fringe of the spectra are usually black and tight lipped as means ... out there in continuance! Some say ongoing consequence given what is unbelievable unknown due to resistance to knowledge ... the God of wisdom thus departed as a hard beadle ... spatially out there? Suggestive of an abstract ... that's Ide ... alternate to be sure ... yet seeping contrary to trickle down economy ... where much goes down the tubes ... weep and learn!

May explain why the masses work themselves to death to support a few struggling to avoid de NU's ... neurological defeat? Thus denied the ought ... no space for working lighter schemes? Dah night of sol ... laid out in solace ...

My attentions drifts to that ballad of Thee Lucky Ole Son ...
 
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Ask yourself, "Why did Caucasians decide to label themselves "white" as opposed to "pink" or "flesh-toned" and Africans as "black" as opposed to "dark brown?" Jungian psychologists have an interesting archetypal take on this decision. Archetypes refer to the human tendency to organize perception and experience on certain universal symbols. These archetypes are identified through cross-cultural dreams, art, and religious symbolism. So under the sun's influence, "white" evolved as an archetype for nobility, purity, goodness, and safety, whereas "black" evolved as a symbol of danger, threat, evil, and inferiority because, for example, in ancient times it was dangerous and unproductive to go out in the jungle or woods at night and because we can't see clearly in the dark.

What a very euro-centric position. Explain why white is the colour of death and mourning in Indian culture? Why black in many cultures represents power, and re-birth? And if you're getting into human colour schemes, where's your euro-centric position on yellow and red? Does Asian fondness for red as a lucky colour have something to do with their "yellow" colour? Is it a colour wheel thing? Indigenous people have "red" skin; does that explain their passion for water (blue)?

Colour archetypes are not cross-cultural, although they may be pan-European
 
What a very euro-centric position. Explain why white is the colour of death and mourning in Indian culture? Why black in many cultures represents power, and re-birth? And if you're getting into human colour schemes, where's your euro-centric position on yellow and red? Does Asian fondness for red as a lucky colour have something to do with their "yellow" colour? Is it a colour wheel thing? Indigenous people have "red" skin; does that explain their passion for water (blue)?

Colour archetypes are not cross-cultural, although they may be pan-EuropeanI'
I'm sure Jung's (and Hillman's) research is far more comprehensive than yours. The point is that, according to comprehensive Jungian research, the whiteness archetype has the same positive connotations in ancient African and other dark-skinned cultures, myths, and dreams. So when they were victimized by the slave trade, Jungians argue, the blackness archetype insidiously encouraged low self-esteem that eventually supported compliance to slavers' demands. The slavers of course unconsciously assumed racial superiority by virtue of their archetypal sense of purity, goodness, and productivity. Jungian psychology is foundation for pastoral care departments in some U. S. seminaries.
 
I'm sure Jung's (and Hillman's) research is far more comprehensive than yours. The point is that, according to comprehensive Jungian research, the whiteness archetype has the same positive connotations in ancient African and other dark-skinned cultures, myths, and dreams. So when they were victimized by the slave trade, Jungians argue, the blackness archetype insidiously encouraged low self-esteem that eventually supported compliance to slavers' demands. The slavers of course unconsciously assumed racial superiority by virtue of their archetypal sense of purity, goodness, and productivity. Jungian psychology is foundation for pastoral care departments in some U. S. seminaries.
I'm not sure Jung is that widely accepted in the scientific or psychiatric community any more. Maybe not as disgraced as Freudian analysis, but certainly not the main theory.
 
I'm not sure Jung is that widely accepted in the scientific or psychiatric community any more. Maybe not as disgraced as Freudian analysis, but certainly not the main theory.
As a psych minor in college, my training is in behavioral psychology, which objects to Jung's multi-cultural and psychoanalytic approach for its inadequate grounding in lab-controlled experimentation. His archetypal approach has proven helpful in the therapeutic role of archetypal dream interpretation and in his discoveries about the role of the unconscious and hence the shadow self. For that reason, he is the most creatively impressive modern writer I have ever encountered. But I'm no Jungian and I only posted a Jungian response because it is the only one that stuck me as relevant to the OP's issue.
 
The unconscious mind ... as not sentient ... is often denied and thus can operate intuitively! Folks all wrapped up in reality often miss such things ...

More to look into!
 
I'm sure Jung's (and Hillman's) research is far more comprehensive than yours. The point is that, according to comprehensive Jungian research, the whiteness archetype has the same positive connotations in ancient African and other dark-skinned cultures, myths, and dreams. So when they were victimized by the slave trade, Jungians argue, the blackness archetype insidiously encouraged low self-esteem that eventually supported compliance to slavers' demands. The slavers of course unconsciously assumed racial superiority by virtue of their archetypal sense of purity, goodness, and productivity. Jungian psychology is foundation for pastoral care departments in some U. S. seminaries.

As usual, my key point went wooshing over your head. (Also, re-read the paragraph above and ask yourself if you could actually do any better at portraying yourself as an ancient pallid racist dinosaur.) What can I do to speed up your inevitable flouncing off?
 
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