9/11 anniversary

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Mendalla

Agnostic pantheist gorilla
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Hard to believe it's been 20 years this month since the towers fell. I was at work and someone came by my office to tell me a plane had hit one of the Twin Towers. I was busy (one man show in those days) but started monitoring the events online.

So twenty years later, have we learned anything? Has anything really changed?

I mean, Afghanistan is ruled by the Taliban again, Iraq is a postwar hellhole, Al Qaeda is gone but Islamic State seems to have taken up the mantle. The US is in seemingly constant political turmoil, too, worse even than in the wake of the 2000 campaign. All the conditions that set us up for 9/11/2001 seem to still be in place in spite of two decades of "the war on terror."

The only thing different is that we didn't have a pandemic happening in 2001.

If I was a family member or survivor, I think I'd be shaking my head because nothing seems to have happened that would prevent more people from suffering a rerun.

BTW, I'm not interested in seeing the conspiracy theories hashed out here and if that happens, I'll probably lock the thread. Let's look at the real world we face, now and then, and discuss whether anything positive or useful came out of that horrible day.
 

Waterfall

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Jun 12, 2014
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Terrorism will continue, so will wars, and yes we will continue to produce weapons that will be used to fight against ourselves and others. We have learned nothing IMO except to dramatize past and present events with continuous memorials.( as in the 2 world wars) Remember the motto (or lie) Never Again?
Unless there is a world moratorium on all weaponry, there is no getting away from it and even then other things will be used against us (e.g.planes, poisons, dictatorships, etc)
We seem to be more comfortable with intermittent chaos than a consistent peace. Blasting each other rather than talking.
 

Luce NDs

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Is this because we don't know when enough is not enough of the peace lovers that would like to put down intellectual stuff rising from dirt on the corruption syndrome?

And the suggestion is the peace makers will inherit ... what? More of the same and still expect change ... defining words? Insane ...
 

Luce NDs

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Which mayor al ity?

There are extreme variants ... some legalists about the lyre and the sad song of poor folk that need to be eliminated ... as they are a pain!

How do we learn again ... bottom line flaw? Ships of fools may break up if they don't get much of it together in a decent grip ... and yet still we are gripped by nothing ... when all substantial matter is gone! Nothing but Eyre, Jane ... a very thin presentation ...
 

Waterfall

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I sometimes wonder if the stress of that period sent Giuliani over the edge. He seems like a rather pathetic, slightly unhinged, shadow of the man we saw that day.
As we all may as we age.
 

Luce NDs

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Time is stress in some traditions it was called an ankh ... folk wore it around their neck as a drudge ... given lack of interests in unknown power of the unconscious sol that doesn't see it passing and behaves like a child!

The key to better times is the device leading to relaxation theory ... before the more advanced work that beyond us ... a ship of fools rowing fast to face the opposition? Cooperation is out of the picture! Rubs against the individual all alone trying to control the world ... puts some right over the brink ... consider the republicans and right to act like some sentience is gone astray ... as self-limiting device ... understood subtleties? Maybe below the visible horizon to a mass of folk ... needing lighten up ... we're not in this alone yet there are those prone to deny and eliminate the talents ...
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pantheist gorilla
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Messages
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The Forest City
At 8:46am on this day 20 years ago, American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower of the World Trade Centre, setting off a chain of events that still have repercussions today. Even the current situation in Afghanistan can be traced back to that moment. Let's take a few minutes sometime today and remember the 2996 people who died that day, and also the countless people who helped, from first responders on the scene to the people here in Canada and elsewhere who welcomed and aided stranded travelers during the closure of US airspace. It has been a long 20 years in some ways, too short in others.
 

jimkenney12

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Jun 6, 2014
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614
As I posted in the other thread, I also choose to remember the millions of people harmed by American imperialism, beginning with another 9/11 when Pinochet overthrew the democratically elected Chilean government.
 

ninj

I just am
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
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Like most people (maybe?), my life is divided between pre 9/11 and post. It changed everything. Massive and very traumatic loss of a (false) sense of freedom and safety. I got "woke" to the other world. Safety and freedom I had always taken for granted, but the rest of the world lived without it daily. I learned that. Life hasn't been the same since.
 

Luce NDs

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It is a post date BS in ... this will pass too and few will really recall the reason ... not an apostate looking back as many will deny the circumstances ... as rift a post hole IHC...
 

Graeme Decarie

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The war in Afghanistan was an American fault.
It began in 1920 as British, French and a few other countries began warring and plundering against Muslims. That was the original war of terror. And the killing rate was high.
after 1948 the U.S. entered as the major killer. Britain joined it as did Canada (thanks to our fat headed Canadian Legion which is a huge disgrace). We were murderers and plunderers. Thanks, as well, to our lying news media - they are a disgrace as well. In short, this is a brutal, lying, and vicious war created by us westerners.
The attack on the twin towers was a muslim attempt to make us pay a price for our murdering and plundering that had been going on for seventy years. The Afghans are not the evil murderers. We are.
Canadian and American and British are the murderers and plunderurs in this. They always were. (Canada dropped out after some 12 years of murdering Afghans. I don't know why. Your newspapers are ALL propaganda sheets. They always have been. That goes back to Citizen Kane over a hundred years ago in the U.S.
ALL the daily papers lie. All of them. That's why honest Canadian reporters developed a web site - rabble.ca.
As it is, Americans are neither safe nor free.
Their newspapers lie. They alway have. Freedom? In the U.S. over 60 million have been kicked out of their homes to struggle and die in the streets while the super rich pay almost nothing in taxes and make monstrous profits every year.
Americans were threatened by 9/11? Hell, Americans are being plundered by their own billionaires every day. The U.S. is NOT a democracy. It never was. George Washington did not believe in democracy. Nor do the Liberals and Conservatives of Canada. Both of them have been given the right to American oil companies to plunder us.
I could go on like this for many hours.

Oh, next time you're in church think about how many of the European and American troops were Christian. (Almost all of them, including the Germans. Hitler was a C hristian. )
How is it possible for so many battlefields for Christians to be killing each other? How come our clergy often (always) speak kindly to those we are sending to kill people?
I don't see anything Christian about our churches.
 

Mendalla

Agnostic pantheist gorilla
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@Graeme Decarie! How ya doin'? And, yeah, Western nations messing around in Afghanistan has a long and sad history. As I pointed out in my thread on the Afghanistan withdrawal, it actually goes back to the 19th century when Britain and, I think, Russia were jockeying for power in that area..
 

Graeme Decarie

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Muslims did not attack. Christian Countries like Britain and France attacked them starting in 1920, plundering those countries. After WW2, the U.S. took over the murdering and plundering. Canada joined that for over ten years - our jolly murderers.
Weep, if you must for our killers.
Our news media lie. They always have. And our billionaires who own the news media make sure we never know the truth.
Americans are suffering? Hell, they jumped into the murdering even before even before the Canadians. WE are the killers. We are the ones who spent years murdering Afghan children. We are among the most murderious this world has known.
Our newsmedia? They lie. They always have. ALL of our news media are propagandists. That's why a serious CBC reporter retired to found a web site called rabble.ca Take a look and see what the truth is like.
You should learn that we don't have safety and freedom. (Jews could tell you something about that. Nobody would accept those freed from the death camps - not Britain, not the U.S., not Canada - Nobody. So we kicked muslims off their land and sent the Jews there. ( no major leader in any western country accepted Jews for some time.)
Most of our leaders have never accepted democracy. George Washington never believed in it. Canada's two leading parties - liberals and Conservatives - have never believed it.
And our clergy make it a point to avoid the issue - any issue.
 

Graeme Decarie

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Moncton, NB
For a real charge, try the story of George Bush Sr. He was a hero of a sort. He led an American army of mercenaries to murder priests, nuns, missionairies in Guatemala starting, I think, in the 1950s. And this was an approved American venture. They murdered priests in their churches. They murdered whole convents of nuns. They murdered missionaries.
All of this never made our news. I learned of it in 1990. I was on radio at the time when the story came in about the body of a Canadian missionairy that was being examined in Montreal. So I called the doctor. The missionary was from New Brunswick and he had been murdered in Guatemala. The body was now on the way to his home which was in a town owned by the billionaire Irving family. There he was buried. But the Irvings, who owned all the newspapers in New Brunswick, refused to print the story in their papers. To this day, New Brunswickers know nothing about the missonary or his murder. Indeed, no paper in Canada ever ran the story.
 

Waterfall

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Joined
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Messages
12,769
Muslims did not attack. Christian Countries like Britain and France attacked them starting in 1920, plundering those countries. After WW2, the U.S. took over the murdering and plundering. Canada joined that for over ten years - our jolly murderers.
Weep, if you must for our killers.
Our news media lie. They always have. And our billionaires who own the news media make sure we never know the truth.
Americans are suffering? Hell, they jumped into the murdering even before even before the Canadians. WE are the killers. We are the ones who spent years murdering Afghan children. We are among the most murderious this world has known.
Our newsmedia? They lie. They always have. ALL of our news media are propagandists. That's why a serious CBC reporter retired to found a web site called rabble.ca Take a look and see what the truth is like.
You should learn that we don't have safety and freedom. (Jews could tell you something about that. Nobody would accept those freed from the death camps - not Britain, not the U.S., not Canada - Nobody. So we kicked muslims off their land and sent the Jews there. ( no major leader in any western country accepted Jews for some time.)
Most of our leaders have never accepted democracy. George Washington never believed in it. Canada's two leading parties - liberals and Conservatives - have never believed it.
And our clergy make it a point to avoid the issue - any issue.
I always found it ironic that when the US gets attacked they find it hard to believe.
Of course this is not to condone the horror of 911, but there are plenty of horrors going on in the world even now and we're all blind to it while we reminisce.
 

Luce NDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
50,227
The war in Afghanistan was an American fault.
It began in 1920 as British, French and a few other countries began warring and plundering against Muslims. That was the original war of terror. And the killing rate was high.
after 1948 the U.S. entered as the major killer. Britain joined it as did Canada (thanks to our fat headed Canadian Legion which is a huge disgrace). We were murderers and plunderers. Thanks, as well, to our lying news media - they are a disgrace as well. In short, this is a brutal, lying, and vicious war created by us westerners.
The attack on the twin towers was a muslim attempt to make us pay a price for our murdering and plundering that had been going on for seventy years. The Afghans are not the evil murderers. We are.
Canadian and American and British are the murderers and plunderurs in this. They always were. (Canada dropped out after some 12 years of murdering Afghans. I don't know why. Your newspapers are ALL propaganda sheets. They always have been. That goes back to Citizen Kane over a hundred years ago in the U.S.
ALL the daily papers lie. All of them. That's why honest Canadian reporters developed a web site - rabble.ca.
As it is, Americans are neither safe nor free.
Their newspapers lie. They alway have. Freedom? In the U.S. over 60 million have been kicked out of their homes to struggle and die in the streets while the super rich pay almost nothing in taxes and make monstrous profits every year.
Americans were threatened by 9/11? Hell, Americans are being plundered by their own billionaires every day. The U.S. is NOT a democracy. It never was. George Washington did not believe in democracy. Nor do the Liberals and Conservatives of Canada. Both of them have been given the right to American oil companies to plunder us.
I could go on like this for many hours.

Oh, next time you're in church think about how many of the European and American troops were Christian. (Almost all of them, including the Germans. Hitler was a C hristian. )
How is it possible for so many battlefields for Christians to be killing each other? How come our clergy often (always) speak kindly to those we are sending to kill people?
I don't see anything Christian about our churches.


Is this true to the power of denial being how easily the thought of such thing slipped away from our consciousness? May relate to the boxing instinct in some leaders after a childhood of being beat about the ears by an abusive parenting model ... Busch for hiding behind ... need for caution if it busts into flame?
 
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