Thirst-gry?

Geez, THAT escalated quickly.

I'd like to understand your sense of discussion, unsafe.

How is it okay for you to toss a single passage at me, and when I toss you an opposing one right back, you are automatically right, and I am automatically wrong, and you forget all your "simple translation" principles and toss out a pile of apologetics and context, which you normally dismiss, unless you need it.

BetteTheRed -----you are trying to say that Jesus accepts other Religions and you do that by giving a scripture that is not about Jesus accepting other religions but is all about Faith ---then you blame me for calling you on it ---and talk about right or wrong ----The context of the scripture I quoted says what it says ---and the scripture you quoted says what it says ---it is about Faith not Jesus accepting Buddhism --Islam etc ----and Jesus never --ever brought up any Religion ---nor did He ever say ----Follow my Christian ---Islam ---Buddhism ---Protestant ---Catholic ---United ----Baptist ----Seven Grandfather ---etc ---Religions ----Jesus ---God has no Religion ----We wither follow the way of Jesus or we follow other Religious teachings -----many that go against the way of Jesus -----

you said this on page 1----- I think, my responsibility as "Christian Educator", in that I am the team leader of the congregational group "Faith Formation and Christian Education" in my United Church congregation, to understand as much as I can about other religions. We've done a series about Islam, and I'm working in conjunction with another gentleman on a series around the Seven Grandfather Teachings this fall.

I say
If you want to say that Jesus accepts other people's beliefs and it is OK to teach about these then give a scripture that backs that up ----

My view -----Jesus LOVES all people --no matter what they have done or do ---but does He accept the teachings of Other Religions by people who say they follow His Way ???-----that is the question ?????-----we know Jesus Love the person but not all actions or teachings that contradicts His word ----He made that clear to the Pharisees -----

So if we follow Jesus then we believe and trust His word as Jesus is the word ---so how do these teachings in your series agree with God's Word ----if any teachings goes against God's word then as followers of Christ we should refrain from those teachings or series --should we not ?---as we can't serve 2 masters -so the scripture says ---
AND
Galatians 1 :6-10 CSB ----comes under this heading and gives a warning -----read all
No Other Gospel

I guess a fundamental difference unsafe is that some of us see 'education' as helping others learn HOW to think; others believe education is telling others WHAT to think. Personally I see Bette in the first category, and you in the second. Different.

Back to the original post - I think thirst is more dangerous than hunger, from a physiological perspective. Thirst signals dehydration, which in its severe state triggers a cascade of potentially deadly responses in the body, including hallucinations. Mild dehydration usually causes us a headache. Many elderly folks are indeed mildly dehydrated - which might be interesting to consider. On the other hand - drinking too much water can also cause huge physiological consequences which can be equally dangerous.

GordW said:

ANd then I pondered, how do we respond when we sense our needs are not being met? And what do we thirst for? DO we trust that we are not alone?

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Re sensing our needs not being met - first we would need to recognize the signs of this occurring - sometimes people do not have capacity to do so and all sorts of mayhem may unfold with misattributions. Or sometimes it might be the ability to communicate/articulate the need that is poor or absent, so the need remains unmet - anger may grow unabated with blame placed on others for not anticipating our uncommunicated needs; and sometimes once the need is recognized and a hand is outstretched to help it is rejected as 'too late' and unforgiven.

What do we thirst for? I think this may vary somewhat at different stages and phases of life, but I think human connection is one for me.

Yes - I do trust that I am not alone, even though sometimes I do certainly feel lonely.

Carolla ---you said -----I guess a fundamental difference unsafe is that some of us see 'education' as helping others learn HOW to think; others believe education is telling others WHAT to think. Personally I see Bette in the first category, and you in the second. Different.

I say -----Here is the catch to what you are saying here ----there are 2 different realm ---Physical and Spiritual -----so the Physical says one thing and the Spiritual says another ------we have free choice to choose which realm we want to think in ----

BetteTheRed ----in her post said she follows the Jesus way ---l but her thinking follows the physical ----so she in in fact saying according to your post that she splitting her thinking one moment she thinks like the Spiritual --which you say is helping others WHAT to think and the next moment she thinks like the Physical -----which you say is helping others HOW to think ----- Her Christian thinking lies in lukewarmness ---Her thinking is neither hot or cold for following Jesus way or the worlds way ----it sits in lukewarmness - -according to her posts ---Not good in the Spiritual sense or the Worlds sense ----this indicates mixing and double mindedness --which only brings confusion -----and the scripture says ----a double-minded person is unstable in all their ways -- James 1:8

And the Spiritual gives warnings to Lukewarm Christians Revelations 3:16

Strong's Number: G5513
Usage: Lukewarm
Definition: Tepid.
Detailed definition:

1. Tepid, lukewarm.
2. Metaphorically of the condition of the soul wretchedly fluctuating between a torpor and a fervour of love.

Just saying -----

That's an interesting distinction you make. I personally would not split these in such a way.

unsafe said:

I say
If you want to say that Jesus accepts other people's beliefs and it is OK to teach about these then give a scripture that backs that up ----

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John 14: 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

Unsafe, your entire belief system is anchored in dualism. Good/bad, right/wrong, physical/spiritual, God/Satan. Life, the world, animals/plants/fungi, etc. are not like that. Everything exists on the intersection of hundreds of continua.

Carolla said:

I think thirst is more dangerous than hunger, from a physiological perspective.

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Of course. Humans can't go more than a few days without water, where they can go some weeks without food.

BetteTheRed ---you Quoted ----John 14: 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

I say-----LOL and who are the rooms for -----Jesus says it best here ----

John 14 (CSB)
The Way to the Father
14 “Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe[a] in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself, so that where I am you may be also. 4 You know the way to where I am going.”[b]

5 “Lord,” Thomas said, “we don’t know where you’re going. How can we know the way?”

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, you will also know[c] my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.


So I say -------Jesus is still alive here and who is Jesus speaking to ----His Disciples -the to be righteous ones --who at Pentecost will receive the Holy Spirit and will be set and saved to have a reserved room in His Father's house ----not all Jews will received the Holy Spirit BetteTheRed -at Pentecost --nice try though -----

Now we have to receive Jesus in our hearts to have a reserved room in His Father's house ---

Many know of Jesus ---but don't really know Jesus ---Jesus said ---you must be Born Again --so if your Born again there BetteTheRed ---you will have a room in His father's house for sure ------that is a Promise ---

BetteTheRed -----LOL ---NO The Bible does not support Dualism ----that again is your worldly thinking and lack of understanding of the scriptures -----nice try though ----In order for Dualism to exist in the Scripture --God and Satan would have to be Equally opposing one another and that is not the case ---Satan can't do anything without God's OK ----and Satan is limited in what he can do ------


Dualism argues that there are two equal and opposing realities - good and evil. These forces are in an eternal battle with one another. There are a number of religions such as Taoism that hold to an eternal dualism.

The Belief Is Not Biblical

The dualistic idea is not biblical. Scripture does not teach that there are two equal opposing forces that have eternally existed. God alone has existed eternally.

Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God (Psalm 90:2).

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Evil Is Not Eternal

Evil does not have eternal existence. When God created the heavens and the earth everything was perfect.

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good (Genesis 1:31).

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God And Satan Are Not Equals

There are those who say that the biblical teaching regarding God and Satan shows an eternal dualism. However this is not correct. Satan is a created being that came into existence at a time in the past when God created him. Therefore there has been no eternal struggle between God and the Devil.

There Will Be An End Of Satan

The Bible also predicts that he will have an end.

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (Revelation 20:10).

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Therefore will be no eternal struggle between God and Satan because Satan will be banished from God's presence.

Summary
Dualism is the idea that there are two opposite eternal forces, one for good and one for evil. Good and evil become two equal gods that are in conflict. Although taught in some religious systems, dualism finds no support in Scripture. Only God has existed eternally. Evil has not existed eternally alongside Him. Evil only came into being after God had created the universe. Although there is a cosmic fight between good and evil, it is not an equal fight. God is the Creator, Satan is merely a creature - he is not the opposite of God. Dualism fails to discover the good God who will judge evil.

I give up.

BetteTheRed said:

I give up.

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wise choice

Back to the topic... again, there is a hint of nostalgia for what already seems to be a romanticized past; last week's reading mention the fleshpots, and this passage also speaks of being dragged out of Egypt (where water was available) out here to this dry desert in the midst of nowhere. Some today, thirsting for a sense of security and well being want to turn back the calendars to the good old days, when Sunday schools were overflowing, money was plentiful, etc etc. The hard part is to realize that the good old days had THEIR share of problems, too; and that the past and its halcyon conditions ain't coming back. The way ahead is forward, even if it seems the hard way; can God somehow provide what we need to move forward into the unknown? Do we trust that God is waiting for us there, and also walking with us along the way?

Redbaron said:

The way ahead is forward, even if it seems the hard way; can God somehow provide what we need to move forward into the unknown?

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I like the concept of God "leading us/coaxing us/beckoning us" into the future a la some of Oord's/process theology ideas.

In the Gospel ofJohn, Jesus tells his disciples that he has other sheep folds which they do not know about. If these words are about the Christ present for on the beginning of creation, those sheep folds could include other religions

I see the primary thirst as longing for feeling secure and connected without a specific other. The living water is a belief or understanding that lets a person feel safe or secure no matter what is happening and with a feeling of connection that is not readily broken, even if it feels a little tenuous at times.

jimkenney12 said:

If these words are about the Christ present for on the beginning of creation, those sheep folds could include other religions

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Of course they could. And then there's the story of the Good Samaritan, a "Samaritan" being a total "non-believer" to the Judaism of the time (wrong mountain, dontcha know, lol), not even a righteous Gentile.

And the parable of the sheep and goats, where there is no suggestion that belief has any part in "judgment", but rather, treatment of neighbour, which also, Jesus talks about very broadly.

"Universalism" is an on-going discussion in many sects/denominations of Christianity, and totally legit as a position within Christianity.

And the high Christology of the later written John, compared to the synoptics, is also problematic (although I just quoted John, lol).

What the deu*is terronomy? Fore runner to the rush to ends ... a form of warped ethics ... sheep thus folds!

It happens in bent space ... wrinkles in time ... sometimes alien folk get caught up in the loops as formed ... lyon snares ...

ll lyons not matter how laid out need queries ... thus doubtable questions as well! Hard to pass thro' ... without a bit of seizure ... with spice, celery, etc.

Disconfirmation is an interesting word when one pris into the meaning:


As an alternate way of observing what is ... may depend on the proof of the thing existing or not existing ... thus in a world of expansive hate for the sibling ... love is out there as thus intellect is w/o as well as a love of intelligence is beyond us who hate all the hard things given as something to learn from on the concepts of negatives ...

Like hard shells shelter shady areas of existence ... in the Shadow of bedeviled smiles!

Now to relax knowing that it is all just another pile of word ... heaped narratives! Words are often dark and appear as holes in a white page; yeomen and hostlers? Hostile to thought processing ...

One must "go to it" in order to grasp that beyond BS comprehension!

I've been told to get out with my query on thoughts that are doubtful as vacuous psyche ... thus sucked up!