Novel Coronavirus

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Clearly, a small majority of Victorians support the efforts being made to contain the virus.

First and foremost ... neither supporters or non supporters had a choice.

And clearly the non supporters opinions will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

experience called cognitive dissonance......
Dismissing the alternative voices because they don't match your bias?

How are the non-supporters being represented by the media?

Civil Liberty Campaigners? Pro Choice Advocates?

Dangerous Criminal Conspiracy Theorists ... the go to discredit for any opposition?

Dan Andrews: ‘Don’t focus on conspiracy theorists’

According to reports, officers have seized phones and a computer, charging a 41-year-old Mooroolbark man with ‘incitement’. A 41-year-old Chirnside Park man will also be charged.

The Facebook event, now removed, called on people to protest in opposition to Melbourne’s six-week shutdown and claimed to be a broader movement of planned protests.

It had more than 100 confirmed attendees and 400 expressions of interest.

Australians rally against lockdowns, vaccines

“This is a completely blatant breach of the chief health officer’s directions and puts Victorian lives at risk,” police said.

Police reported nearly 200 people being fined in the first two days of restrictions, including 43 people fined for breaching curfew and 51 fined for not wearing a mask.

Premier Daniel Andrews said the harsh restrictions were the “only way” the state would drive down cases.

Victoria Police have warned they will not hesitate to hand out $1652 on-the-spot fines or arrest others who try to attend protest events.
 
I'm not convinced on that with this virus. Not to say it's not possible, but I'm questioning if the comparison on that was fair. I should go dig up some of the articles on that. Useful information in general if it's true though.
Also he seems to be promoting herd immunity.....which I thought was proven to be false with this virus?
 
Seriously? No. Good grief. I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your comment.

The problem with mask mandates is that public health officials are not merely recommending a precaution that may or may not be effective.

They are using force to make people submit to a state order.

That is not just a violation of the Effectiveness Principle.

That is a violation of a basic personal freedom.

Mask advocates might mean well, but they overlook a basic reality:

Humans spontaneously alter behavior during pandemics.

Humans are intelligent, instinctive, and self-preserving mammals who generally seek to avoid high-risk behavior.

The natural law of spontaneous order shows that people naturally take actions of protection by constantly analyzing risk.

Instead of ordering people to “mask-up” under penalty of fines or jail time, scientists and public health officials should get back to playing their most important role:

Developing sound research on which people can freely make informed decisions.
 
Also he seems to be promoting herd immunity.....which I thought was proven to be false with this virus?
We don't know yet if being infected once is enough to give immunity. Antibodies seem to decrease fairly quickly, although antibodies alone don't give the full picture.
If there is an effective vaccine, that could be used to reach herd immunity.

The idea of letting everyone get sick with the virus to achieve herd immunity is a bad idea. What we seen in places like New York, Sweden is that the majority of the population hasn't been exposed to the virus, yet there were a lot of hospitalizations and deaths. Fatality rates are questionable, but regardless of what it is, we don't want 1%, 0.1% whatever of the population to die from this and more who have long-term health issues.
 
So, Rita, have you historically been up in arms about the "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" rule?

Do tell how this differs?

It's a public health suggestion, which some jurisdictions, with popular support, have chosen to put forward, Why are you all excited about Australia, when you know that in most of Canada, your "exemption" claim will be honoured?
 
Herd immunity means that most of the vulnerable members of the herd have died, or been seriously ill from the infection. It feels like a cruel way to respond to a new disease.

My biology background suggests that our immune system had a better chance of repelling an infection by a few viruses than by an invasion of tens of thousands of viruses. I suspect this possibility explains why front line health workers often get seriously ill.
 
So, Bette, I am not up in arms about any rules.

I abide by the rules that I think are just and I reject the notion that I should to be 'forced under threat of violence' to obey the rules that I do not.

I extend that freedom of choice to any and all and recognize that there are consequences.

If I 'being of sound mind' and only for the sake of 'being defiant' ... chose to run into a public no shirt no shoes establishment while other than sporting a mask I was stark naked ... what should be my just consequence?
 
Herd immunity means that most of the vulnerable members of the herd have died, or been seriously ill from the infection. It feels like a cruel way to respond to a new disease.

My biology background suggests that our immune system had a better chance of repelling an infection by a few viruses than by an invasion of tens of thousands of viruses. I suspect this possibility explains why front line health workers often get seriously ill.
We're not really referring to repelling an infection though. It's more about severity of illness. I feel like the initial viral load isn't going to be the main factor in that with a virus that we don't have much of an immune response to with it being new. That suspicion could be wrong, but most of the viral load is going to be due to replication within the body, not the initial exposure.
If we were talking about something where we already had antibodies to it, the likelihood of that possibility would seem much higher. Maybe for whatever reason with a very low exposure we are capable of slowing the viral replication to give enough time to launch an adaptive response.
 
Also he seems to be promoting herd immunity.....which I thought was proven to be false with this virus?

I understood that he was saying that of the virus load is reduced so that people get mildly sick and develop antibodies then herd immunity might develop.
 
Instead of ordering people to “mask-up” under penalty of fines or jail time, scientists and public health officials should get back to playing their most important role:

That is essentially what is happening in this province. People are being encouraged to wear masks. They are not being mandated.
 
That is essentially what is happening in this province. People are being encouraged to wear masks. They are not being mandated.
I wish that's how it could be everywhere.
What a difference in the building I got to for phototherapy between being asked vs the bylaw being in place. I also saw Gasoline Alley - not one person wearing a mask other than Chemguy after the bylaw was in place here (not there though, as far as I know they still don't have one).
 
Personally I am tired of the whole debate. Adults have brains to think with, even though they don't all come to the same conclusions.

If you must wear a mask to enter a particular place - wear one or stay out
If you want to wear a mask regularly - then do so.
If you don't want to wear one - then don't.
When you see someone who holds a different opinion - keep your mouth shut.
 
Actually, Rita, masks are fairly common in Asia
The bottom line is that in East Asia, the predilection toward using face-coverings to prevent exposure to bad air is something that predates the germ theory of disease, and extends into the very foundations of East Asian culture.

When you see someone who holds a different opinion - keep your mouth shut.

Studies have found that among many young Japanese, masks have evolved into social firewalls; perfectly healthy teens now wear them, along with audio headsets, to signal a lack of desire to communicate with those around them. This is particularly true for young women seeking to avoid harassment on public transit, who also appreciate the relative anonymity the masks provide.
 
If I 'being of sound mind' and only for the sake of 'being defiant' ... chose to run into a public no shirt no shoes establishment while other than sporting a mask I was stark naked ... what should be my just consequence?

No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service? It's one of, not all of.
 
Studies have found that among many young Japanese, masks have evolved into social firewalls; perfectly healthy teens now wear them, along with audio headsets, to signal a lack of desire to communicate with those around them. This is particularly true for young women seeking to avoid harassment on public transit, who also appreciate the relative anonymity the masks provide.

And THAT is the best reason I've read yet in support of masks. Yay for not being pestered while female.
 
Dismissing the alternative voices because they don't match your bias?

How are the non-supporters being represented by the media?

No, cognitive dissonance doesn't mean "dismissing alternative voices"...........

You yourself have shown excellent examples of how non-supporters are represented by the media......

I have tried to the best of my ability to get you to wear a mask for the sake of others, but I can see it's pointless and a waste of time. As such, I will take Kay's advice and leave the topic.
 
No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service? It's one of, not all of.
The point was I was chose to be willfully negligent of the 'rules' ... what should be the just consequences of choosing that action ... no one was physically harmed in any way ... just a streaker with nothing but a mask on ... a quick entrance and a quick exit.
 
Except that your naked chest and feet are less likely to communicate a known, currently circulating disease than your uncovered face.

It's not all that funny if you have loved ones at risk.
 
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