Why Do We Have to Believe Jesus is Fully God and Fully Human to be a Christian?

unsafe

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The Baptism of Jesus brings the manifestation of The Trinity in my view ------The Father confirming the Son to be Mediator --the Son entering the formal manner of doing God's work by and through the Holy Spirit who descended upon Him -----Jesus was sinless He Humbled Himself to be baptised to show the people who were sinners how they can receive righteousness thought true repentance ---- and be cleansed ----
After Jesus dies -----we have to receive Him in our hearts and the Holy Spirit comes on the inside of us ------to be righteous ---no Religion of Christianity can give you that ----It's a personal decision

As Mystic points out ---Jesus Ministry did not start until He was Baptized by John The Baptist and Anointed to proceed ----

The Title of this Post is this -------Why Do We Have to Believe Jesus is Fully God and Fully Human to be a Christian?

All this being said above----The Word Christian or the Religion of Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus or who or what He was or is -----anyone can say they are Christian or they belong to the Religion of Christianity -------

God has no Religion --Jesus never ever said that His Religion was Christianity or Judaism - Jesus came under the Law He came to fulfil the law ---He kept the Jewish holidays etc but He never said in any scripture that Judaism was His Religion ------Jesus came to introduce a New Covenant which was a new way -----which was the Gospel of the Good News ---which had nothing to do with any man made Religion called Judaism or anything else

You either Believe Jesus was Fully Human and Fully God when He walked this earth or you don't ---Christ means anointed one ------Jesus had to be anointed to carry out His Ministry --Jesus did nothing until He was Baptized and was anointed by the Holy Spirit -----and we can't either -----saying we are a Christian holds no weight when it comes to was Jesus was fully human and fully God -- Belief or unbelief holds all the weight in this matter not religion --


This is the rest of the scripture AMP----from verse 15 to 17
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+3&version=AMP

15 But Jesus replied to him, “Permit it just now; for this is the fitting way for us [k]to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John permitted [it and baptized] Him.
16 After Jesus was baptized, He came up immediately out of the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he (John) saw the [l]Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him (Jesus),
17 and behold, a [m]voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased and delighted!”

Footnotes for this scripture -----
  1. Matthew 3:15 This act of baptism identified Jesus with sinners whose sins He would ultimately bear, and to whom His righteousness would be imparted.
  2. Matthew 3:16 The descent of the Holy Spirit identified Jesus in His humanity for His ministry as the Messiah.
  3. Matthew 3:17 This is the first instance recorded in the Gospels of the Father speaking audibly to His Son. Also see Matt 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 3:22; 9:35; John 12:28.




 

GeoFee

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Hi,
A "spirit" is a supernatural thing. In that sense, I do not have a "spiritual" side.
i remember playing hockey as a boy. Had a coach who fostered team spirit. Ever watch the Bad News Bears?

Those who consider spirit to be supernatural are in error. Spirit is transcendent - a bit like the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Spirit has influence but no effective power. It inspires and motivates.

George
 

chansen

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Hi,i remember playing hockey as a boy. Had a coach who fostered team spirit. Ever watch the Bad News Bears?

Those who consider spirit to be supernatural are in error. Spirit is transcendent - a bit like the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Spirit has influence but no effective power. It inspires and motivates.

George
I don't equate "spiritual side" with "team spirit". I think most would suggest those mean pretty separate things. When I coached, I think I fostered a terrific team spirit. It was me and my racers against the world, and they did great things and had a lot of fun as a group. Social outcasts were integrated. Everyone cheered their teammates on. Team spirit is one of those things I'm good at. "Spiritual side" remains, at best, some ill-defined concept that no one can really clarify when they disagree with my assessment of a religious "spiritual".
 

Mystic

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George,
For Paul, precisely because the Holy Spirit is "transcendent," it is supernatural in the same sense that God is "supernatural."
That fact is uncontested in modern Pauline scholarship. Of course, I wouldn't expect an atheist like chansen to accept Paul's perspective/
But George, did you even bother to read the 3 texts from Paul that establish this point?
 

chansen

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Colville must be so proud of you! Let's ask their Community Church to come see their ex-pastor preaching in a ghetto. They will love this.
 

Luce NDs

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Never forget the things that have been blown into an aerosol ... they get quite misty ... and perhaps mystified by the fog and mire ... the dust of deeper places! Thus the cloud moves ... some people even store memories and documents in such metaphors ... as metaphysical formations!

Thus people dream ...
 

GeoFee

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Hi,
When I coached, I think I fostered a terrific team spirit. It was me and my racers against the world, and they did great things and had a lot of fun as a group. Social outcasts were integrated.
Sounds like something Jesus would have said. The realms of religion and politics were deeply compromised by the abuse of power in service to pride and profit. Jesus fostered a spirit of resistance among the exploited and oppressed. This inspired such persons to action in service to their hopes for change. Which resulted in their persecution by the religious and political elites.

Can we agree that the word spirit opens to a diversity of meaning?

George
 

GeoFee

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I don't equate "spiritual side" with "team spirit". I think most would suggest those mean pretty separate things. When I coached, I think I fostered a terrific team spirit. It was me and my racers against the world, and they did great things and had a lot of fun as a group. Social outcasts were integrated. Everyone cheered their teammates on. Team spirit is one of those things I'm good at. "Spiritual side" remains, at best, some ill-defined concept that no one can really clarify when they disagree with my assessment of a religious "spiritual".
Something working in and through you “fostered a terrific team spirit”. Our world is going downhill quick. Maybe you could foster cooperative exercise of diverse perspective in the hope of obtaining a common goal: the well being of human being and its natural habitat? Your integration of social outcasts offers further opportunity for team effort directed to making positive difference.

Easy to put down straw figures. Harder to resist the strategies of “divide and conquer”.
 

Ritafee

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Spirit is the essence, the active principle in every living being.

Without spirit, matter can’t do anything.

Matter is the stuff bodies are made of, the stuff that makes up the whole universe.

The difference between spirit and matter is similar to the difference between a driver and a car:

Car minus driver equals "parked car."
 

Luce NDs

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The divinity of spirit and essence drives some folk a bit off ... causes diversity ... breaking stoic religious stances into fractals ... like frost on a cold pane!
 

chansen

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The difference between spirit and matter is similar to the difference between a driver and a car:

Car minus driver equals "parked car."
I'm my car's spirit? What?

My car clearly isn't fully appreciating me.

If I wanted to provide an alternate transportation analogy, and I don't think I could do worse, I'd say that "spirit" is the difference between a trip and a vacation. Simply travel is monotonous and boring. A vacation should be highly anticipated and exciting. The difference is the "spirit" with which you undertake them.
 

GeoFee

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Hi,
You're writing from a religious perspective, trying to co-opt the secular meaning of "spirit". You don't get to claim that.
I am not writing from a religious perspective, nor am I trying to co-opt the secular meaning of spirit. I am simply saying that there is an aspect of human being that cannot be pinned down. What motivates you to say and do the things you say and do?

George
 

chansen

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Hi,
I am not writing from a religious perspective, nor am I trying to co-opt the secular meaning of spirit. I am simply saying that there is an aspect of human being that cannot be pinned down. What motivates you to say and do the things you say and do?

George
My ability to reason and how much religious reasoning tends to disgust me. You get to read it because I lack an internal filter.
 

GeoFee

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My ability to reason and how much religious reasoning tends to disgust me.
I am aware that you have the ability to reason. I am also aware that your preference is for mocking religious voices lacking any semblance of reasonableness. From my perspective this amounts to taking an easy way out. So I will continue to encourage the growth and development of your reasonable capacity in service to our common human destiny.
 

Waterfall

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One of the reasons that many believe that Jesus was/is God is that some reconcile from John 19:23, that he was able to forgive sins while he was on earth because only God could do this. In Hebrews 4:14 and 7:25 we read that Jesus is our high priest who intercedes for us with his Father.
This was part of the reason the scribes were upset, because their understanding was that ONLY God could forgive sins not a man or even the messiah they were expecting....so of course Christian religions conclude that if he was given the authority to forgive sins ,it was further proof that he was God. Roman Catholics believe that this authority was also passed down to their priests and gives them the power to intercede to forgive sins through God's Holy spirit.
So if Jesus was only human, where did we get the idea that he could forgive sins? Was scripture misinterpreted?
 

chansen

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I am aware that you have the ability to reason. I am also aware that your preference is for mocking religious voices lacking any semblance of reasonableness. From my perspective this amounts to taking an easy way out.
It's not the "easy way out". It's the best tool we have at our disposal to deal with ideas that were not visited by reason in the first place. Religious claims hate mockery and will try to place themselves above mockery, like they place themselves above reason. Which is ironically why they need to be mocked.

I like my approach to religion. I get along with lots of religious people, and for someone who is often seen as a "militant" atheist, I'm not violent and I don't threaten anybody. If anyone is threatening anyone, it's religious people threatening me, and I love that. Toothless proxy threats on behalf of a specific God are endlessly entertaining. I have fun with the threats, and religion in general. I help people laugh at religion so they can laugh at the threats as well. I think that's important.

So I will continue to encourage the growth and development of your reasonable capacity in service to our common human destiny.
I continue to encourage you to write for your audience, and this was one of your better ones, though "common human destiny" seems a little over-the-top.
 

unsafe

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Waterfall --your quote ----- Roman Catholics believe that this authority was also passed down to their priests and gives them the power to intercede to forgive sins through God's Holy spirit.

This is a Perfect example of how Religion can twist and turn scripture to suit their own agenda and Wrongly Divide The Word of Truth -----The Holy Spirit has many roles in the Believers Life but forgiving sins is not one of them -------there is not one scripture that says the Holy Spirit ever forgives sin -----Sins were forgiven in the Old Testament by animals blood sacrifices that lasted only for a time ------ -the Catholic Priests are forgiven their Sins today by and through receiving Jesus as their Lord and Saviour who shed His blood to cover their sins ----only after receiving Jesus do they Get the indwelling of The Holy Spirit who anoints them to do God's work as the Holy Spirit directs them to -- no Human being no matter what they think scripture says can take away the sins of other Humans ------Jesus was given authority to forgive sins by His Father so Healings could take place to show God's power and Glory when He walked this earth

Jesus Heals a paralytic man
You can read the scripture at link below ----says He had authority to forgive sins ------Jesus did nothing on His own ---He did what His Father told Him to -----

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+9%3A1-8%2CMark+2%3A1-12&version=AMP
 
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