What Non-Christians Wish Christians Knew....

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Luce NDs

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The implications are enormous ... allowing a unknown power to put us in boxes, bosch, or strange restraints ...

To some their god is fear ... and imposing it on you neighbour. If you get some wisdom from God Fear and the analysis ... is it a beginning?

Then one is set for the next stage, jump, rung. whatever ...

Can a person ruled by or with fear explode into a monster of the other kind? Then there are the humble that recess from such destruction of knowledge and wisdom! They'd rather not expand the quanta ... a bit of the quantum field. If you don;t know ... guess you're not familiar with the complexities of that small pearl! Recall you must relate at sufficient distance ... or arms length concepts are destroyed in a moment of inertia!

It can be a KO sign ... part of the story, ballad, etc. like a wisp in the strange winds ... abstract or creative? These things must be communicated in myt in a land where liars have most power ... even though false and misrepresented because of refusing their base uncertainty.

What do humans know as isolationists? Is that a relative expression? Don't judge, gather cautiously like Ani ... like Anin ... it is nothing, nein!

Everything language is vast and confusing because of transliteration ... I just don't know about these people ... so study goes on ... Magi-lei ... don't tout it just respect. The judge is said to out moment Aris Lais!

It is a nodule hidden there ...
 
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unsafe

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Just my view here ====

The article speaks for itself as far as division goes in relation to Non Christians and people who say they are Christians ----being divided and in conflict over right and wrong ----belief and unbelief ----just read all the comments -----you can down play it all you want but it is there in black and white in this article ------

And by the way the Love Jesus speaks of is Not Human Love ---it is Agape your neighbour ---Agape your enemy-- Agape God --and that kind love is given by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ----it is a fruit of the Spirit not humans --------
This word love is in my view thrown around in a hap hazard way with no real understanding of the difference of human love and Agape ---we just used love anyway we want to and take it out of context and say anyone can love their neighbour and their enemies like we are all that that we can just do what Jesus says without God at all -----and for me that is a slap in God's face and a disregard for what this Love really is ------again my view ----

from Got questions ---read all yourselves
https://www.gotquestions.org/agape-love.html
Agape love does not come naturally to us. Because of our fallen nature, we are incapable of producing such a love. If we are to love as God loves, that love—that agape—can only come from its Source. This is the love that “has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us” when we became His children (Romans 5:5; cf. Galatians 5:22). “This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters” (1 John 3:16). Because of God’s love toward us, we are able to love one another.


I say ----This above for me says it right -----
 

Luce NDs

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The Love of Love (god) alone really destroys the potential of reasonable rationality and fear of God driving one towards a state of wisdom that is beyond the gravitas ... central ... an abstract CIA hidden in the myth!

In the love of love domain this is non-interpretive ... as the cup is empty ... just an alien air! I prepare to move on ...
 

Mystic

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This is an example of where this translation makes an assumption that is not in the original text. There's no suggestion that this is the purpose of the sword, in any other translation. There will be division in families, but there is nothing to say that the difference is of "belief".
On the contrary, unsafe is, as usual, correct, and Bette, Redbaron, and Northwind are imposing their irrational progressive agenda on the text without bothering to consult the decisive context. Ah, if they had only read the next verse after 10:34-36:

"Whoever loves father and mother more than me is no worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:37)."

Jesus creates the division precisely over His messianic identity and the devotion that His identity requires. No academic Bible book commentary disagrees wit this this. And Jesus' divisive intentions are echoed elsewhere: e. g.

"Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth. No. I tell you, but rather division (Luke 12:51)!"
 

Luce NDs

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As god is a mysterious black hole in the headman ... if you don't have any other experienced folk assisting ... guess what?

Wee really don't know ... other that that large formless void takes over!

The author of R Regan's biographie said that Ronnie was like that ... in elusive language of course .... cause ... exactly what can you say! It is best to conform to the naivete!
 

Mendalla

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On the contrary, unsafe is, as usual, correct, and Bette, Redbaron, and Northwind are imposing their irrational progressive agenda on the text without bothering to consult the decisive context. Ah, if they had only read the next verse after 10:34-36:

"Whoever loves father and mother more than me is no worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:37)."

Jesus creates the division precisely over His messianic identity and the devotion that His identity requires. No academic Bible book commentary disagrees wit this this. And Jesus' divisive intentions are echoed elsewhere: e. g.

"Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth. No. I tell you, but rather division (Luke 12:51)!"
She never said there was no division, @Mystic, only that the basis of that division is not specified to be belief in that passage as the Amplified Bible interpolated. The real point was that the Bible unsafe is using interpolated text based on their interpretation of it.
 

Luce NDs

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She never said there was no division, @Mystic, only that the basis of that division is not specified to be belief in that passage as the Amplified Bible interpolated. The real point was that the Bible unsafe is using interpolated text based on their interpretation of it.
Powers wouldn't do that would they? I so glad I know nothing of it ... such news would depress my faith in institutionalized religions ... especially belief about polarities are good for competition and breaking down the demos ...
 

BetteTheRed

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I looked at it in context. I saw the family divisions. And I saw "more than me".

What if the quite rational explanation for the division was to be found later in Matthew 25? What is "loving Jesus more than another" other than loving my neighbour to the extent that I convert an enemy to a friend? What if I choose to befriend and help someone my sibling disapproves of? I, personally, have a limited sympathy for those who cannot imagine a wider, wilder world of love and care, but I try.

My current role in life is exposing me to a large number of frightened people. I have largely decided to equate bad behaviour with fear, although I'm not above giving a "you have got to be friggin' kidding me" eyebrow.
 

unsafe

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Mendalla ---your quote ----The real point was that the Bible unsafe is using interpolated text based on their interpretation of it.

I say --I disagree with your statement here ----


This is what the Amplified Bible says about their translation ---
https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Amplified-Bible-AMP/

The AMP was the first Bible project of The Lockman Foundation. Its goal was to take both word meaning and context into account to accurately translate the original text from one language into another. The AMP does this through the use of explanatory alternate readings and amplifications to assist the reader in understanding what Scripture really says. Multiple English word equivalents to each key Hebrew and Greek word clarify and amplify meanings that may otherwise have been concealed by the traditional translation method. The first edition was published in 1965.

The AMP is based on the American Standard Version of 1901, Rudolph Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, the Greek text of Westcott and Hort, and the 23rd edition of the Nestle Greek New Testament as well as the best Hebrew and Greek lexicons available at the time. Cognate languages, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other Greek works were also consulted. The Septuagint and other versions were compared for interpretation of textual differences. In completing the Amplified Bible, translators made a determined effort to keep, as far as possible, the familiar wording of the earlier versions, and especially the feeling of the ancient Book.


I say --there are grave warnings for anyone adding or subtracting and words of Scripture ---so I don't think that the people who translate would be that stupid to add or subtract words in their translation -----


I say -----Posting ---This is what the word sword means in the Greek in the scripture in Matthew 10 ----

-----https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-34.htm
The Sword of the Gospel

Strong's Concordance
machaira: a short sword or dagger

Metaphorically, μάχαιρα, a weapon of war, is used for war, or for quarrels and dissensions that destroy peace; so in the phrase βαλεῖν μάχαιραν ἐπί τήν τήν, to send war on earth, Matthew 10:34

I say -----The Word is the sword -----it divides and causes conflict ------you either believe the word or you don't ----it causes dissension between non believers and believers ------as the article shows -----

Jesus came with the Word (sword ) ----which would divide and bring conflict between families and people


The Amplified Bible is one of the study Bibles that are available -----
 

Luce NDs

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I looked at it in context. I saw the family divisions. And I saw "more than me".

What if the quite rational explanation for the division was to be found later in Matthew 25? What is "loving Jesus more than another" other than loving my neighbour to the extent that I convert an enemy to a friend? What if I choose to befriend and help someone my sibling disapproves of? I, personally, have a limited sympathy for those who cannot imagine a wider, wilder world of love and care, but I try.

My current role in life is exposing me to a large number of frightened people. I have largely decided to equate bad behaviour with fear, although I'm not above giving a "you have got to be friggin' kidding me" eyebrow.

This needs more than a simple "like" given the unintelligent things people do when idolizing something aggressive ... in reaction I'd like to dump something foul on their brain ... know your chits ... these folk hate anything intelligent. Even say so biblically (I don't need to know) is a response. Then some already are already informed. However there are variants that say they know love in essence ... that's messy for those into perfection!

Besides ... believing the sword of the Gospel of a corrupt monarchy is truth ... that just kills it for me! And in a private message someone was worried about the context of my expression about some communications could be the end of me ...

Sort of messes about with the context of similar and metaphor as asses or satyr ... one needs to cover it too to learn anything about the environment ... that ringing in my night ... is it my silent friend's tinnitus? It is a resonating experience ... without my understanding it! I've know bedmates that cause bedlam ... some black ... while in my head ... white fuzzies ...
 
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BetteTheRed

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The Amplified Bible is one of the study Bibles that are available
Agreed. My preferred version, which includes the Apocrypha, and a ton of notes, is the "Inclusive Bible". It takes the original texts, tries to keep them gender-neutral, to my mind, largely successfully (except for Ruth) AND pretty closely to the original text. For NT, I also use the Jesus Seminar translation, which is beautiful-crazy-simple translation with a ton of notes. For other purposes, I like the OED NSRV with Apocrypha. Again, really straight translation, tons of commentary.

The NIV makes some translation decisions that are distinctly "American Evangelical"-type decisions, like their use of the word homosexual.

The Message takes the AMP bible to a sort of extraordinary max, albeit with a really "classic liberal view", by taking the translation options offered and then turning them into a little expanded story. It's occasionally quite yikes-y.
 

Luce NDs

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"Ruth" was an ancient word for love and she travelled with her ... until Boa-Z appeared ... then Naomi backed off ... as that name sometimes meant a complete salt ... of knowledge and wisdom (like Sophy, or Sunni) and in the presence of love ... thought and wisdom retreated ...

The implications are immortal ... as deals in the abstract are salted away ... things do change ... doesn't that trump all as if blown through the tube of the monster in the room ... Ganesh? That's the long nosed one interfering with things by lying ... pinocchio! Bi nock yah ... something is blocking the way ... the code of seminal things buried in a dark place ... impregnating the poor sole, with those shoes at the foot of her bed ... suspicions of someone was learning anin ... there are sections of The Catcher in the Rye is about something remotely different than what occurred to them on the surface ... the there was the coal minor's dot Eire ... a small penetration!

May be parts of the Blade Runner that is just as mystically cutting through the fog of love at a time of loss of all thought ...
 

Mendalla

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Agreed. My preferred version, which includes the Apocrypha, and a ton of notes, is the "Inclusive Bible". It takes the original texts, tries to keep them gender-neutral, to my mind, largely successfully (except for Ruth) AND pretty closely to the original text. For NT, I also use the Jesus Seminar translation, which is beautiful-crazy-simple translation with a ton of notes. For other purposes, I like the OED NSRV with Apocrypha. Again, really straight translation, tons of commentary.

The NIV makes some translation decisions that are distinctly "American Evangelical"-type decisions, like their use of the word homosexual.

The Message takes the AMP bible to a sort of extraordinary max, albeit with a really "classic liberal view", by taking the translation options offered and then turning them into a little expanded story. It's occasionally quite yikes-y.
My attitude has always been to give me a straight, well-done translation of the original texts and keep the commentary and interpretation in the footnotes and endnotes or otherwise separate from the actual text so I can consult them but can also just engage with the text on my terms.
 

BetteTheRed

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Perhaps. For a lectio divina study, we've found using three different types of texts (rando) for the three questions can deepen the study, and I often throw in the Jesus Seminar colour notes at least (black, grey, pink, red) if we're using a NT (gospel) lectionary passage.
 

BetteTheRed

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Also, what non-Christians wish Christians knew?

How very little they care. How completely closed they are to conversion.

If Christians really wish to attract non-Christians in any way at all, it would be a bit like the AA folk: "we're not into conversion, but if you want what I have, talk to me". If I have or exude any sort of peace, or kindness, or plain-speaking about life and death that you like, talk to me. Otherwise I, like everyone, just have an opinion, like an a**hole...we all have one.
 

Waterfall

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On the contrary, unsafe is, as usual, correct, and Bette, Redbaron, and Northwind are imposing their irrational progressive agenda on the text without bothering to consult the decisive context. Ah, if they had only read the next verse after 10:34-36:

"Whoever loves father and mother more than me is no worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me (Matthew 10:37)."

Jesus creates the division precisely over His messianic identity and the devotion that His identity requires. No academic Bible book commentary disagrees wit this this. And Jesus' divisive intentions are echoed elsewhere: e. g.

"Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth. No. I tell you, but rather division (Luke 12:51)!"
I can't say I've ever read a story about Jesus using weapons against his enemies, in fact didn't he discipline his disciple when he cut a soldiers ear off in the Garden of Gethsemane? The closest reference I can come to is a story from the Hebrew Bible about Pinhas who takes his spear and kills a couple before Moses and the people, due to an act of unsanctioned zealotry. Then God bestows upon Pinhas/Phinias a "covenant of peace". In the old testament it seems justice was served at the end of a sword, but then Jesus seems to have come to increase the law. He asks more from us and usually offers a different view, so could peace be more important than justice? Or can peace only be had through justice?
 

Mystic

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She never said there was no division, @Mystic, only that the basis of that division is not specified to be belief in that passage as the Amplified Bible interpolated. The real point was that the Bible unsafe is using interpolated text based on their interpretation of it.
First. she and her eisegeting progressive buddies don't get the need to interpret Gospel texts in context; and the context makes clear that the division is based on a devotion to family that surpasses devotion to Jesus--a saying that implies the need to believe in Jesus' unique status as Messiah and God's Son.

Second, the Amplified version, unlike our posting progressives, recognizes the decisive role of that context and rightly views the text as unsafe does.

Third, Bette's suggestion is absurd and embraced by no scholar: radical schism is based on Jesus' claims about who He is, not on whether some fail to recognize that services performed for the needy are viewed by Jesus as services performed for Him.

Fourth, Northwind, I'm glad you humbly recognize your irrational approval of progressive claims about Jesus' teaching that ignore the context.
There is much more you could also learn from unsafe's carefully considered posts and it is very rude for you to actually post that you don't want to hear her response.
 

Northwind

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Fourth, Northwind, I'm glad you humbly recognize your irrational approval of progressive claims about Jesus' teaching that ignore the context.
There is much more you could also learn from unsafe's carefully considered posts and

Of course you absolutely have no clue about my beliefs. I would be interested in sitting down with unsafe with a tea or coffee to have this discussion. I suspect we'd have a better conversation in person than in print for a variety of reasons. I doubt though that you and I would be able to have such a conversation. You'd have to get off your high horse wouldn't you.

it is very rude for you to actually post that you don't
I have no idea what you are saying here. Of course you know rude though, don't you.
 

Luce NDs

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Also, what non-Christians wish Christians knew?

How very little they care. How completely closed they are to conversion.

If Christians really wish to attract non-Christians in any way at all, it would be a bit like the AA folk: "we're not into conversion, but if you want what I have, talk to me". If I have or exude any sort of peace, or kindness, or plain-speaking about life and death that you like, talk to me. Otherwise I, like everyone, just have an opinion, like an a**hole...we all have one.
There must be a dynamic relationship ... which goes against strict bureaucratic protocol driven by propaganda machines generating heaps of mistruths for unknown rational. The stoic won't move from there lacking that without ... thinking room for the process?

It is an alien dimension without considerable reading into it. There even is an old theory about you get as much as you put into it ... exegesis and its dance partner, hermeneutics? Stuff being drawn out maybe of strange essence ... the possibilities may be infinite but the orthodox will fix that with an irrational law ... it is just the way the alternate side is ... or how it be's ... that's the buzz here when you know the answers are unlimited ...

Yet so the statement holds some minor truth, no matter what stones will be cast ... missals? Even the great Mosaic got one ... this too evolves ... some don't ... fixed abstracts (imagination confined)!
 
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