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Undue Thread Ban

chansen

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I was just thinking he couldn't stay away any longer, but that's en excellent observation. I feel like an idiot for not making that connection myself.
 

KayTheCurler

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I merely skim past his words. I've tried having conversations with him - and you all know where that exercise leads. There doesn't seem to be any point in responding to him in a normal adult way.
 

chansen

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Jae will try to find the thing that annoys you and press home an attack on that point. With me, it's creationism. With Tabitha, it's quilts. John points out that most of us are upset with a Doug Ford win, so he came back to gloat about that. He wants to make each of us angry, and that seems to feed him. What a terrible existence.
 

revsdd

Creation Is A Beautiful Thing
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Jae will try to find the thing that annoys you and press home an attack on that point. With me, it's creationism. With Tabitha, it's quilts. John points out that most of us are upset with a Doug Ford win, so he came back to gloat about that. He wants to make each of us angry, and that seems to feed him. What a terrible existence.
You and I may not always agree on how to handle Jae but I agree with you on this. Jae finds where you're sensitive or vulnerable or easily triggered and he works away at that spot. Sometimes subtly so that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what he's saying or hold him accountable for it and sometimes more obviously. It's an interesting little game. And it gets him guaranteed attention, which is what he seems to need.
 

Mendalla

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Jae is why the Ignore option exists. I'm increasingly taking the tack that if he starts needling me, I just throw that on until he moves on to something else. I'm not always succeeding at resisting the urge to kick back, but that's how I'm trying to play it. That way, he doesn't get the attention.
 

chansen

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Christians may want to pray that he's lying about going to South Korea. Or start praying for South Korea. Maybe both.
 

Northwind

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It isn't just mods who have given Jae the same feedback. It seems to me that it everyone but one is singing fron the same songbook maybe it's time to listen.
 

Lastpointe

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I agree we all struggle it’s the same issues. He appears to lash out and he pushes buttons

Can we collectively handle it better. We are a small forum. Do we want to scare more people away? Don’t we say we want diverse opinions? Seems like what we mostly want is liberal minded opinions only

But that isn’t very diverse or welcoming.
 

chansen

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Jae is not the most "conservative" member here. Far from it. Blackbelt signs on with alt-right conspiracy blogs and and unsafe makes Jae look like a hippy by comparison. This is not about Jae's political or religious leanings. It's about Jae being an a**hole.
 

Mendalla

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Do we want to scare more people away? Don’t we say we want diverse opinions? Seems like what we mostly want is liberal minded opinions only
It isn't Jae's opinions that are the problem. Else we'd be talking about unsafe, Pontifex, and blackbelt here, too. It is how he chooses to express himself and treat others. He doesn't just express opinions that we disagree with, he treats those who disagree with him with disdain and actively bullies them in some cases.

For instance, it is one thing to talk about poverty. It is quite another to taunt another member for being "rich" because their house has a solarium. As he did to Bethanne at one point.
 

Northwind

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And then when he is called on the behaviour he pleads ignorance and plays the victim.
 

Lastpointe

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I know. I get tired of his working poor self designation when in fact he is a student living with parents

Just wondering if we collectively can handle him better. I ignore him but then the threads seem odd without his comments
 

DaisyJane

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I think it is a good question. If we want to be inclusive that means we include everybody, even those who make us uncomfortable.

When Jae is genuinely engaged in a conversation I am more than happy to dialogue with him. When he wants to he can offer a well-articulated argument and in the case of some topics he is well-read - though his reading is often contained to a specific POV rather than a diverse collection of opinions - but okay.

Maybe if he gets that message loud and clear - that we actually like chatting with him when he engages in a meaningful way, that might help.

However of late I haven't encountered this version of Jae. Lately I have found the posting of Jae more combative, confrontational, or manipulative. I have wondered if he is unhappy or if he is experiencing a difficult time. If he is I almost wish he would just tell us, that way we could be supportive rather than simply dealing with his prickly behaviour.

In the past I might have called him out hoping that we could return to our previous constructive chat, but I can be a bit of a Pollyanna that way. These days I have decided that if he wants to engage in a meaningful chat I would love to do so. If he is trolling I will not feed the troll. I will not engage with him. I know many others take this approach. I am a slow learner at times!

I agree that it is important that we welcome people, even those who make us uncomfortable or who can be difficult to chat with. And I think most of us really strive to do so. But I do not think we should reward troll-like behaviour. If Jae is trolling or simply playing for a reaction then I think ignoring the behaviour until modified can be a good approach. You know, a bit like what I did with my three-year old at times.
 
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Carolla

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From my perspective, it's not a question of whether or not we feel uncomfortable with jae, or speculation of what his motives may be - it's a question of adherence to Code of Conduct. He has had bans imposed, with little to no subsequent evidence of improvement of behaviour. Repeatedly we see him violate some points - for example:
  • "Keep threads started by others on topic if requested to do so.",
  • "Comments that gratuitously attack or demean individuals or organizations are not acceptable."
  • "making statements that are deliberately inflammatory (“trolling”); repeatedly misusing the Report function; or any other behaviour that interferes with conversation or inhibits the ability of members to use and enjoy this website for its intended purposes."
We have an outlined process for sanctions - which perhaps we have been reluctant to apply?

I do recall that he was recently previously warned re starting thread just such as this one - and was directed by mods to use the appeal process if unhappy, with that thread then being shut down. He has openly argued and been disrespectful of moderators of this board. That's not acceptable to me.

So for me, the more pressing question is - why do we keep putting up with this? What does it say about us that we continue to accept repeated abuse of the Code of Conduct which we all agreed to? I don't mean this comment to be in any way disrespectful of the present or former mods - I know how tough that position can be. It's more a reflective question to all of us in the community.
 

chansen

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So for me, the more pressing question is - why do we keep putting up with this? What does it say about us that we continue to accept repeated abuse of the Code of Conduct which we all agreed to? I don't mean this comment to be in any way disrespectful of the present or former mods - I know how tough that position can be. It's more a reflective question to all of us in the community.
I don't give a s**t about the code of conduct. All I know is I don't like being played. Codes of conduct are weasel documents to cover your ass when somebody is offended and people want to delete something or ban somebody. Jae will always retreat behind plausible deniability and claim he isn't doing any of those things on purpose, or we misunderstood.

Someone is going to read Jae the Riot Act on his return, he is going to promise not to be a rabid troll any more, and within a month we'll be back here, with Jae deleting his avatar and having his next walk through the wilderness. I've just come to accept this.
 
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This thread is really awful. I don’t understand how jae’s antics - which are annoying at times but really there are bigger problems in life - whip everyone into such a fury. I don’t see how 10 people openly bitching harshly about him, while not talking to him (it’s poor decorum and the reason I am saying this while he’s not participating is to call it) - or not avoiding the temptation to be condescending nearly every time he is spoken to - even the times he’s not doing anything wrong ... I do not see how that helps. It’s just meeting annoyance and silly games with cruelty. Nobody tries to rise above this response, nobody apologizes when he is poorly treated (the cracks about aspects of his personal life) so where’s the motivation to change?
 
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